In the very beginning, before there was anything.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html
Again - I’m not talking about personal tax credits, I’m talking about government subsidies for developing EV, like China.
Oh, yes he received subsidies and paid it all back. I’m not sure what that has to do with the tax credits for purchasing EVs?
Nothing! I’ve said it twice, can you read? LOL
Then how can you claim that Teslas are different from other EVs when all EVs have access to DC fast charge? The Model 3 may charge somewhat faster than the Bolt(30-40%), but newer EVs are planned to have even faster speeds at 100kw.
There are also far, far more chademo/ccs stations than Tesla superchargers. Lines at Tesla stations are already a reality with the small number of Model S and Xs on the road, so Tesla would need to increase the number of chargers by an order of magnitude to accommodate all those Model 3s it claims to be building. Meanwhile, a large number of CCS stations are being built by several different companies, far in excess of what Tesla has planned.
1 Like
No, the low interest loan Tesla received was and still is a subsidy. At the time when Tesla got that loan from the Department of Energy, it was a risky new startup. If the government hadn’t subsidized Tesla, it would have been forced to borrow at dramatically higher interest rates on the private market.
Read this article if you’re interested in why those loans to startup companies are actually huge subsidies even if the loan is repaid.
1 Like
Not saying the subsidy was justified, just saying that it was given and was paid back. I’m not going to hold it against Tesla that they took advantage of a government program that shouldn’t have existed.
I have a tesla model s and live close to a charging station in Fountain Valley Ca. I’ve tried going off hours, etc. Its always full. i have never just pulled into a free charger. Moreover, there is no want to tell when it is your turn other than to look at a bunch of similar cars. I do love my Tesla - but we need more charging stations.I also have a “gas station” in my garage wih my plug in power there. But really need more chargers Especailly with the 3 coming.
They’re coming! Musk promised to double the number of superchargers globally by the end of 2017. It seems like they’re making a lot of progress and creating larger stations (40+ stalls in certain locations). 10,000 superchargers worldwide still isn’t a ton, but they’re currently the only ones creating an infrastructure so you have to start somewhere. Gas stations had 100+ years to expand, so things like this don’t just completely change overnight.
Fortunately for Model S owners, Model 3 owners will have to pay 20 cents per kW to charge, so the value in taking up valuable supercharger stalls when they can charge cheaper at home just won’t be there. If people really used supercharging stations for their travel needs rather than just to save a couple bucks at home, there would be plenty of spaces available for everyone.
Here in San Diego, there’s 1 station, and that one station fills up throughout the day due to all the businesses around (it’s in a Qualcomm lot). After around 9:30pm, a few spaces start opening up and by 10, at least half are available to be used.
So are payments to farmers, construction industry, big oil.
Exxon paid $101 billion in US taxes on US income of $82 billion in 2015(IRS taxes on global income), I don’t think Tesla has ever paid a cent in US income tax.
You don’t really want to play this game.
@ng0 Tesla superchargers haven’t been free for almost a year now, this hasn’t fixed the congestion.
101 billion on 82 billion? That seems very wrong. Either way, I don’t support subsidies for any of the above mentioned industries. The federal government really shouldn’t be involved. I’m still happy Tesla exists and look forward to owning one.
Tesla superchargers are free to all Model S/X owners prior to this year and even new Model S/X owners can get free supercharging for life with a referral code. No offense but you seem to be very confused about your facts.
Model 3 owners have to pay 20 cents per kW for using the superchargers although there are reports of some people not being charged at certain stations. I think new Model 3 owners are still figuring out what’s included with their car.
As I said, the US taxes corporations and individuals on their global income. Exxon has a lot of overseas income it pays US taxes on.
SDGE charges between 19 and 50 cents per kWh, so at worst a supercharger cost basically the same as charging at home. However it’s much cheaper to charge at a Tesla station during the day.
I can’t speak for everyone, but I anticipate a majority of Model 3 owners will be charging in the middle of the night in the comfort of their own house for less than 20 cents/kWh. Some, like me will be charging at work for less than 12 cents/kWh. No one I know will be sitting around at a supercharger in the middle of the day to charge their car if it costs them more than at home. I’m sure quite a few EV owners will also have solar or plan on getting it. I’m still planning to do an expansion on my house and after that there’s no doubt I’ll get solar and charging my car will have zero cost outside of the cost of the solar system.
Remember how this got started?
Yes and that’s still a completely valid point. Like I said above, the point of having the charging infrastructure is so that an EV can be used like a traditional car. Charge at home for local commutes, charge at superchargers for more than 200-300 mile travel.
You just answered your own question. 30-40% faster is a lot of time saved. But to your first point, if all EV’s have access to DC fast charge, they are all equal. That is false, Tesla cars have adapters that allow them to charge at ANY charging station. While non Tesla cars do not have access to Tesla superchargers. Which give Tesla a bigger advantage.
@CalOkie I agree, the charging stations are always packed (no matter what car manufacturer). The more companies that add to the charging infrastructure the better. As for the reason why the Superchargers are packed, is due to the fact it is free for the MS and MX. Once they start charging for all cars, the stations won’t be packed.
30-40% faster hypothetical when you only use a supercharger twice a year is utterly insignificant. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Either people are going to be using the superchargers all the time, in which case the waiting lines at them negate the moderately faster charge; or people are only going to be using them rarely in which case who cares if it took you an extra 15 minutes on your road trip?
Either way, it’s not apples to oranges as you said.
Oh and you’re wrong. Teslas cannot charge at CCS stations, which is rapidly taking over as the defacto industry standard. In addition, Tesla charging at chademo stations do so slower than at superchargers.
The charging infrastructure for chademo/CCS is better than for Tesla. There are way more chargers in way more locations. Yes there are sometimes no chargers in the middle of Iowa, but that will only affect a tiny number of people. Plus far more CCS stations are being installed than superchargers.