The purpose of me creating the thread wasn’t to create any issues, it was to discuss the deals.
Part of my job I like is getting offers like these and figuring them out. Putting them in software, trying to find the car online, dissecting the deal, does it make sense, why, etc.
I’m correct in assuming people on here do too! It’s fun.
OK, now you are putting word in my mouth
NEVER called dealers scumbags
How do you know it is unreasonable unless you ask?
Look let’s agree to disagree.
Guess what? I got burned for one of my first leases when I was a young consumer. I deserved it, but guess what? It’s never going to happen again.
What you lack is perspective.
Oh and I love the crying about being called names (which I never did) then calling me a joke. You seem really classy 
No, not at all.
That said I think unethical happens on both side, do you agree?
Why can’t we talk unethical on both sides?
I guess since they pay ?
I agree it happens on both sides and there is no shortage of threads on highlighting dealer misconduct (although I do think a lot of “misconduct” is really the customer screwed up the calculations and are placing blame in the wrong place).
Thus far, you are the only one in this thread that appears to be suggesting that we can’t talk unethical on both sides by being critical of highlighting customer misconduct.
Context my friend. You obviously have a poor opinion of dealers, and trying to push that narrative won’t work. Trying to backtrack now to seem reasonable is too late.
Sure, some dealers stack every flipping incentive possible, loyalty, conquest, lease cash, and purchase cash to get a stupid low price. But still, unreasonable doctored emails are stupid.
Everyone’s at fault in a capitalistic society, and unless you like communism, nothing’s going to change. You don’t like saving money, and the dealers don’t like making money, as if.
No I was attacked because I said I felt there was a reason people go to these lengths.
Then I was told I was angry, taking it personal, told to “show me where the dealer touched you” or something perverted like that.
I honestly don’t see why what I said is hard to understand, but apparently it is, or was taken as calling dealers scumbags.
Whatever, I didn’t post that to start a fight, but clearly it did. I will stand by what I said as I believe that people are often burned as superkimchee said, but I don’t feel that is ethical just because they can. Sorry we will have to agree to disagree too.
Yes it is. Honest people do not go to great lengths to lie and manipulate.
I guarantee you that every dealer on here has had people walk in and take ridiculous deals. You feel as if that’s unethical. Most people here would not agree with you.
Car dealerships are not a public service, they’re in it to make money. Consumers that overpay are a part of that equation, and dealers or salesmen should not be vilified for it.
I feel like I keep on repeating myself…
This industry is based in lying to each other. Dealers to customers & vice versa.
There’s nothing personal.
Justifying fraudulent behavior because dealers try to make deals in their best interest is difficult to understand and your posts do very much come across as calling dealers scumbags.
The problem is a lot of customers that get bad deals confuse their own ignorance with the dealer being dishonest. The dealer doesn’t owe anyone a good deal, nor are they forcing anyone to take a bad deal.
There are dealers that are actually dishonest, and when that happens, they should be called out for it.
Whenever I hear a coworker talk about how they got ripped off by a dealer and then tell the story of said ripping off; I realize they were merely uneducated and ignorant of practices. I simply say “oh man that sucks” and move on with my day.
I’ve found people don’t like it when you correct them in those situations. They just want to feel justified in their anger and vitriol.
So you’re saying 2 wrongs make a right? Not all dealerships and employees are assholes.
This site really helps bring out the scum of the earth. Not referring to you, but to the genius that tried to scam someone via photoshop. It’s not the first, and definitely won’t be the last.
The only solution to this is a non negotiating scenario like how Tesla has. Until then, both sides will have issues with each other as each side is looking out for themselves. I’m sure @Leasehackr2 is not going to be up for that. So deal with it.
TBH, as much as it is a time kill, I’d rather negotiate my own deals than pay a 1 price fits all like TSLA. In my mind, I’m overpaying doing the Saturn/Tesla dance where you pay sticker or walk.
That said, I’m also not going to jerk someone’s chain by photoshopping a quote unethically. I get the fact that both sides have to come to a happy medium, and am not one that looks for the last 2 bucks in payment.
The problem with the tesla scenario is that takes it from a situation where the customer can look out for themselves to where they can’t.
I find the notion that people thing that option is going to save them money hilarious. Tell me @fredyge94, if you had a customer right now say they wanted to come in and pay full MSRP, with the exception of a few vehicles, would you ever say no? The tesla model of no-haggle pricing already exists for most brands if people want it to.
The General’s “Shop-Click-Drive” program does just that. You can buy a car on the lot via the internet, but there’s no negotiation involved. You pay sticker, set up financing and pick up your car. Not sure how many people actually do it, since it’s not well marketed, but I have no interest in it myself.
Speaking of bad dealers and scumbags:
“Despite the fact that American Honda prohibits dealerships from charging a separate fee for the seven-year, 100,000-mile warranty included with CPO vehicles, Bronx Honda charged customers “certification fees” of up to $1,995 for the coverage. Additionally, the FTC accused Bronx Honda of passing on to CPO customers the certification expenses, such as reconditioning fees, of about $3,000. Bronx Honda also charged customers as much as $695 in document fees when selling vehicles, the complaint said.”
For fear that it’ll derail the thread; I thought it was interesting.
When I worked on the floor (pre-internet and definitely pre-LH) I had plenty of people that paid MSRP and we gladly showed them every incentive/rebate that they qualified for. Now I know people on here cringe at that thought but the customer leased or purchased that car with no complaints and they were actually happier than any other buyers! Sticker buyers are ALWAYS the most appreciate and happy buyers and I hate to say it but a lot of people that do research here (not everyone) will never be happy with any deal, no matter how deep because in the back of their mind there was always something more they could have and should have gotten.
But going back, was I “taking advantage” of someone by not offering them a discount?Did I “burn” them? Or did that make a LIAR or a bad person? I don’t think so. They saw the value in the product at the price offered and that’s really all it comes down to.
BTW Greg…great post! We could fill this forum with them, huh?! 