Real or Fake? Part 2

[IAC]

And yet this just happened AGAIN! At least it was one of our cars, but the car is advertised at something like 16-17% off, and the person asked me to beat the calculator set at 22%. Yup.

[Supakimchee]

I’m okay with them trying to get more, but 22% is not reasonable. If I’m ballsy enough to ask for that discount - the least I could offer is a max marked up MF. But at that point, why not just ask for 18-19%?

[IAC]

I agree, but if a car is advertised here by a dealer or broker, there likely isn’t more meat on the bone, it’s already been negotiated to the lowest price. This particular dealer would prefer to stay at base MF rather than giving a higher discount and bumping the MF. Either way, 19% and a full bump is just about the same as 17% and base.

[Supakimchee]

Yes, I agree. Most every broker and dealer on here are pretty upfront about deals being as is. People should respect that. They can either take the deals posted or try their hand at getting a better deal somewhere else - possible but probably way more work involved.

I love the easiness of just getting great deals here without any work. I’d love to grind a deal for months but I just don’t have that kind of time anymore.

[GAngellBMW]

Show me here on the hot wheel where the salesman touched you.

Relax this is for fun. I’m not complaining, I don’t get to do that.

When I catch people in lies, as a ‘professional’ there is no call outs. Just bow your head and move on. On the other hand it works much different the other way around.

I love my job and everything that comes with it.

[Supakimchee]

Yeah, I imagine you guys just tell them to take the offer and move on. We can still have a chuckle here without starting some huge dealer versus consumer debate.

I enjoy these posts.

[volvo1]

The brokers on this website are being paid through commission or Broker Fees to provide transparency and good deals.

Dealers make their money by as many cars as possible for as much as possible. Uninformed buyers who think they are getting a good deal help the people who have Unicorn deals resulting in losses for the dealer.

I haven’t yet seen a dealer advertise deals like I have seen on LH that are as good or as transparent.

[max_g]

IDK about that… enforcement can be strict or close to non-existent depending on where you live.

[Leasehackr2]

@StingerTT

What are you on about? OP is free to share his experiences with unreasonable customers if he so wishes.

Good, then so am I?

So we should feel sorry for dealers?

My point is that why bash someone for asking? One thing I learned in life is you don’t get something without asking for it. When I check into a hotel, I ask for an upgrade, same with a rental car, sometimes I get it sometime not. I would never get it if I didn’t ask.

So how does anyone ever know when they get to the bottom without going below it? Who know maybe he could beat it, but don’t know if you don’t ask.

Why should person A and person B get different money factors all else being equal? It;s that kind of stuff that gives dealers a bad rep. Please save me the you need to know, most peoples heads spin when you start talking about residuals, money factors (that alone is a gimmick, just use APR), cap cost, acquisition fees, blah blah blah.

So I don’t have a problem with someone trying for a better deal, heck I thought that was what this site is about.

[Leasehackr2]

@28firefighter

Did you send one of these?!

The difference between the advertising that dealers do and this is that the dealers follow the letter of the law. Are those screamer ads arguably shady and misleading and impossible to actually get most of the time? Yep. But it is legal and they are allowed to do it - there is no gray area. Dealers are fined if they screw up and don’t honor it.

Manipulating an offer of sale to be different in order to get a dealer to agree to ones numbers pushes into a moral gray area that I just don’t have an appetite for.

Oh please. Are you going to tell me car dealers never break the law with advertising?

I think the term bait and switch was coined for car dealers.

I’m sure I can find some charges filed against some dealers.

Just because something is illegal doesn’t mean people don’t do it LOL

[StingerTT]

I don’t know think you understand the point here. You’re very angry and taking this personally…

OP is merely saying that people are asking him to match unreasonable deal sheets that they doctored. These are people who are knowingly trying to manipulate and lie. Photoshopping a deal sheet took time and effort. They planned to use someone else’s deal sheet that they worked hard to get and exploit it for their own purposes.

No one here is singing the praises of dealers. You can get off your horse now.

[mllcb42]

@Leasehackr2

My point is that why bash someone for asking?

Asking for a huge discount and presenting a doctored offer from another dealer are two different things. Intentional fraud from dealers and customers should be shunned.

[Supakimchee]

A dealer not wanting to match a 25% discount on a x5 is not being unreasonable.

Why don’t you save the “save me the you need to know”. That’s exactly what this website is all about. You THINK dealers get a bad rep for making money off unknowing customers. That’s not the case.

I enjoy these posts of, “hey I put this much down with this payment - how’d I do?” It shows that people are unwilling to research and they rightly get burned. Dealers love these customers, but they can go deeper for deals like the ones you find here because of these customers.

If you’re so altruistic as you claim, go ahead and advocate for consumers like my coworker. Go lobby to your congressman or senator to get this injustice righted!

[GAngellBMW]

@Leasehackr2

One thing I learned in life is you don’t get something without asking for it. When I check into a hotel, I ask for an upgrade, same with a rental car, sometimes I get it sometime not. I would never get it if I didn’t ask.

I do the same.

[Supakimchee]

And don’t try to push this us versus them here, that narrative doesn’t work here. Most of the brokers and dealers here are very well respected and care about their customers.

I have a feeling you’re taking this so personally because a dealer won’t drop their pants for you, either now or in the past.

[Leasehackr2]

@StingerTT

I don’t know think you understand the point here. You’re very angry and taking this personally…

OP is merely saying that people are asking him to match unreasonable deal sheets that they doctored. These are people who are knowingly trying to manipulate and lie. Photoshopping a deal sheet took time and effort. They planned to use someone else’s deal sheet that they worked hard to get and exploit it for their own purposes.

No one here is singing the praises of dealers. You can get off your horse now.

I’m not angry. Why am I angry if I post an opposing position. and it’s not personal.

I don’t think you get my point because you like this thread.

My point is people wouldn’t go to these lengths (if in fact they did) if it wasn’t for dealers creating an environment of mis-trust. Is that hard to understand?

I’m just giving another view, but I guess that makes me angry and personal.

[Leasehackr2]

@Supakimchee

And don’t try to push this us versus them here, that narrative doesn’t work here. Most of the brokers and dealers here are very well respected and care about their customers.

I have a feeling you’re taking this so personally because a dealer won’t drop their pants for you, either now or in the past.

Whatever. I’m done.

Useless to even try to post another view. Get called names and ridiculed

[Supakimchee]

Check all my posts on here towards you. Never called you anything derogatory.

Your viewpoint is that dealers are scumbags and people are just trying to get a better discount. That’s not what was posted. These are either fake offers or VERY unreasonable discounts.

What you forget is that - yes, you can ask for any kind of discount. Doesn’t mean the dealer has to take it or even entertain such offers.

Both sides can torpedo negotiations. If you have a dealer offering a puny discount move on, the dealer can do the same to any consumer.

[Leasehackr2]

@Supakimchee

A dealer not wanting to match a 25% discount on a x5 is not being unreasonable.

Why don’t you save the “save me the you need to know”. That’s exactly what this website is all about. You THINK dealers get a bad rep for making money off unknowing customers. That’s not the case.

I enjoy these posts of, “hey I put this much down with this payment - how’d I do?” It shows that people are unwilling to research and they rightly get burned. Dealers love these customers, but they can go deeper for deals like the ones you find here because of these customers.

If you’re so altruistic as you claim, go ahead and advocate for consumers like my coworker. Go lobby to your congressman or senator to get this injustice righted!

Sorry I didn’t read this one so one more.

You are a joke. People “rightly” get burned.

Why because they didn’t spend hours and hours researching how to buy a car? So they deserve it.

[mllcb42]

@Leasehackr2, let’s break this down to a very simple question:

Do you think it is ethical for a customer to doctor a dealer offer and pass it off as legitimate when asking a dealer to match it?