Why would someone be ok with a plug-in but not an EV?
Because you don’t need to plug it in. Personally, I want nothing to do with an EV at the moment but I’d consider a PHEV if it was that much cheaper than the gas counterpart. He said there’s other options for $500 a month, I want to know what that would be that’s not an EV and comparable to a XC90. Genuine question.
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Have you ever driven a plug-in with a discharged battery? You’re lugging extra hundreds of pounds (at least 500-800) without a benefit of electric power. No fun! So, yeah, you kinda have to plug it in regularly unless you are a glutton for punishment or like wasting gas for no apparent reason.
No comment on other non-EV options.
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The PHEV only has a 2.0-liter 4c gas engine and 32% of the total horsepower comes from the electric drivetrain. Instead of averaging 100mpg you would only be averaging 24. The electric drivetrain is integral to the engineering of this vehicle.
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That’s not how the market works.
A car needs to be priced at X in order to fiind a buyer.
We currently have 2 EVs.
At MSRP minus some nominal dealer discount and limited incentives ($1k conquest for example) and ho-hum programs, and we’d have zero EVs.
Manufacturers will find another way to get there.
The cost of an idle factory is staggering, and don’t forget about the dramatic upfront product R&D costs that have to be amortized.
Yes a 4xe for a couple months and it sucked, electric only worked when it was more than 45 degrees out. I chalked this up to being POS Jeep.
There are always arguments and explanations on here explaining how you don’t have to charge because the battery always has some juice left and never goes to 0.
This was the original statement which I’m still waiting to hear a legitimate answer. A comparable vehicle to an XC 90 that is not an EV.
My wife drives an XC 90 ultimate B6 non PHEV for around $450 effective which was leased last year well before this current T8 chaos. It is her second one and I’m really hoping for something different when it’s is up but there is nothing comparable at that price point. None of the Germans, Acura, Lexus, LR at the size and level of luxury. And the regular B6 is not powerful, I’d much rather have the extra PHEV power even with a depleted battery.
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Thats not how phevs work.
By the same logic, all hybrids just have a bunch of dead weight added with no extra power or other benefits. The electric motors, barteries, etc don’t actually function since you can’t plug them in to charge the battery.
A phev without plugging in will limit electric-only use but it doesn’t turn the hybrid side into dead weight. You still get all of the power/benefits other than extended electric only use.
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PHEV have several benefits, but I do find having two different drivetrains to be overly complex. In this regard, I think I’d prefer traditional hybrids without the plug-in component. While still heavier than ICE counterparts, the electric drivetrains seem to be blended into drive usage more seamlessly. Thinking Honda and Toyota hybrid systems.
I always thought the Volvo PHEV (T8) systems were a great example of bad execution of the technology.
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Its going to be interesting to watch the next round of series phevs/range extender evs to see how they behave from a driveability standpoint. It probably is a better implementation, as long as people don’t mind the disconnect of engine noise.
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While I agree with your preference of traditional hybrid vs. PHEV, the comparison is apples to oranges.
The PHEV can run purely on electric. I know a couple of folks who mostly have short daily commutes to/from work and rarely have to pump gas - for example.
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Definitely! They have different functions! I just think PHEVs are hit or miss and expensive.
I figured they were designed to take advantage of loopholes in qualifying for ev tax credits while being able to run on gas lol.
While somewhat technically correct, having next to zero power is no different from true zero power if it only gives you immaterial seconds long bursts of power. And the weight is still there 100% of the time. I’m on the second 530e and have drained both to zero/near zero on a few occasions. Maybe other manufacturers map their charging different.
So, you’re a glutton for punishment, lol! 
Sorry, false logic, comparing apples to oranges on many different levels:
1 - traditional hybrids add much less weight in electric drivetrain components, really a fraction.
2 - they ARE always “plugged in” when driven getting charged while driving.
3 - smaller motors and batteries not meant for electric only, only meant in a supporting role to ICE.
While I never had I traditional hybrid, I suspect that the claim of battery never going to zero really applies to those only and not plug-ins.
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That’s the whole idea! We just filled up our 530e for the second time since getting it back in late March. First time wasn’t really necessary but I was already at Costco to put (free) nitrogen in the tires. Granted, my wife doesn’t drive much, but she uses only electric for local trips. Even on longer trips the car tends to default to electric only with her driving style.
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Plug ins dont ever go to zero. This simply isnt how they work.
When the battery is “depleted”, it behaves just like a normal hybrid. The battery is charged from regen/any engine charging and discharged from power being applied to the batteries in exactly the same way.
The only difference is the extra battery capacity that can be “filled up” by plugging in and charging, which allows extended electric only use.
The whole “a phev turns into dead weight when the battery hits zero” is a common misunderstanding of how the systems work and simply not true.
This is why. Regular hybrids and plug in hybrids are exactly the same in this regard.
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Yeah, they really do. If it’s at 0.01 it’s really useless and can’t propel the car on it’s own. So, while it may not register at true zero, it’s fully depleted for all practical purposes and keeps ICE on continuously. Again, I have had this experience a number of times in both 2019 and 2023 530e’s. So, speaking from experience, not some concept.
The engine running does not mean the electric motors are just dead weight and along for the ride.
As i stated repeatedly, you are limited on electric-only use, but that is a different thing that no longer having the power output of the electric motor and it being dead weight.
When the battery is sufficiently low, a phev behaves like a traditional hybrid, where motive power is applied by both the gas engine AND the electric motors (exactly like when you’re driving with charge and floor it, demanding extra power output).
What does not happen, as you claimed, is the electric motors/battery/etc cease to operate and just become dead weight. You will be limited on electric-only use, but you continue to have full power output, exactly like what a normal hybrid does.
A phev that isn’t plugged in behaves like a hybrid with some extra weight, with all the benefits of the extra power/regen/etc.
A phev that isn’t plugged in does not behave like a gas-only vehicle where the motors/battery/etc are non-functional dead weight with lower peak power due to the no electrical power, etc.
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My experiences with PHEV (BMW, Jeep) – when the HV battery is at zero, the engine and/or regen is unable to sufficiently recharge it, beyond providing emergency or brief bursts of assistance. Performance and efficiency revert back to purely what the combustion drive train can provide.
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Have you driven a non-phev version of the same motors? They definitely don’t do this, at least with the 4xe system. The power available when there is charge in the battery and when it’s at <1% is the same.
You get a different powertrain distribution during steady state cruising, so throttle response can feel a bit different, but the actual power available doesnt change. You arent suddenly missing 150hp because the battery soc is low.
If youve got a 4xe, you dont need to take my word for it. Itll give you a real time reading of the power being provided by the electric drivetrain while accelerating. You can see how many kW are actively being provided.
That’s my experience. XC90 PHEV has 34 miles of range and that is almost always enough for our Monday through Friday. Even on the weekends we don’t tend to use any gas now since we got a level two charger and can top up over lunch time. Over 8k miles I have used about 110 gallons of gas - mostly on longer road trips. And probably 25% of those gallons were for reimbursed work travel.
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