I think having a separate category for “forum moderator” is a good idea and that it doesn’t need to be a “promotion.” I feel like a “Trusted Hackr” is a poster who has shown that they have reliable and deep knowledge of leasing. But that knowledge may or may not overlap w/ knowing how to moderate a forum (and not trying to imply that there’s only one “right” way).
And, conversely, someone may be good at moderating skills but not have the depth of knowledge of a Trusted Hackr.
I think that’s very true. And it would be great for the forum if the majority of brokers/dealers lent their knowledge to helping folks get a lease deal on their own (I.e. the original mission statement of this forum) - but aside from a handful of folks, I don’t see much of that.
@chrishs2000 i always offer my knowledge as an option for members. Including program info etc. I think a few members can vouch for me on that. They don’t have to buy a car from me. I think most members whom do use my services do so for the convenience.
Wooo! I got banned, when I have ever tried to hide it?
Thanks @max_g for providing such great advice on a bunch of threads instead of giving sarcastic replies like me and providing bad advice.
@trusted_legacy_group if I provide nothing to this forum just ban me again…clearly I shouldn’t be here, this thread is all a waste of time.
Anyway safe to say all the second tag b*thing and moaning is about me, ask @28firefighter what he told me in pm and then proceed to catch a ban anyway, 2nd ban was for multiple accounts, 3rd ban for attacking the sanctity of trusted hackrs and suggesting a new system.
Like I said in off topic landfill, I’m going to spell this out very clearly @trusted_legacy_group I DO NOT CARE ABOUT A MEANINGLESS TITLE, I enjoy the forum for what it is, learning about good deals and giving the knowledge that I have learned to others, I have scored deals in many segments that are good markers for others and in turn given good advice, I move through cars consistently and learned a bunch from here. But it’s inherently clear that we can’t take constructive criticism, very disappointing to see @jeisensc act like this, you should know I’m only here to get good feedback from others and help out where I can.
My suggestion was purely to try and make the forum an easier place for new and existing users.
I hope all the TH who are crying get the message here.
This thread is meant to be a conversation about THers and the nomination process. No reason to get triggered.
Just this past week, we had a very lively 300+ message thread with all the Brokers and THers. I won’t pretend we all agreed or saw eye-to-eye (In the first 20 msgs I had a broker I respect take a genuine comment I made sarcastically, PMed me, and we cleared it up), but there was discussion on both sides, and the operators of the site got the information they needed to make short-decisions and where to focus longer-term.
I’m the one bringing things for discussion and asking for feedback. Yes I am sharing my perspective, and I can’t read minds. For instance
I understand without needing an example.
I suspect I understand the sentiment, but an example or two would help. My point
Is not to negate AJ’s point, I’m sharing my perspective (and I’m glad to pull examples). Like any discussion, I’m trying to get clear on the concern since we’re speaking generally, and we read things differently. You might be reading this now and thinking of one glaring example, I might be thinking about the last 20 exchanges.
Now back to you:
You are not the only example, nor the first example, nor the most recent example.
I don’t have the receipts on this one, but my recollection is NOT that your posts, nor profile announced this, nor that your username itself intimated (eg 2pac3, makaveli2) that a new account succeeded a banned one. I do recall PMs and discussions questioning if one account or another might be you. So is it fair/more accurate to say “once confronted, you didn’t deny it?”
I’m not disagreeing that you have a lot of experiences and opinions you have shared here, but since you have had this account, have you logged-in from any other LH accounts? Do you think you learned whatever lesson caused you to get banned in the prior instances? And if you don’t want to engage on any of that it’s fine.
And that is what we are discussing here. If you are taking the fact that more than one TH is sharing their opinion as “ganging up”, don’t. Nobody is closing this thread, or sending the comments here to the landfill. The brokers/dealers don’t all see eye-to-eye, neither do all the THers.
Which is also why I’m curious about the earlier comment about ganging up. I’m not feigning ignorance like I can’t imagine it happened, but did someone give bad legal advice and 5 people disagreed? If you printed the thread out and sharpied-out any labels (TH, Industry Folks, Tech Crew, Supporter, Supper Supporter) does it look like the OP was “ganged up on”? Was it because they were THers? There are a lot of loud voices with strong opinions on this site, it’s not the Edmunds lease forums. I’m not trying to absolve one group, but the generalities aren’t helping to identify and solve the perceived problem.
I spent about half an hour on the phone with a user last night in Texas who was considering getting a car from me, but I told him it’s not worth it after shipping and gave him some advice and a target discount to shop for in his local area.
Today I explained to a member in Florida who texted me about a Jeep how having equity on a lease works, because it looks like she has a few thousand but a dealer was trying to act like they were entitled to her car, and I had to explain that its a commodity that is hers to control now.
I think that there are more brokers that do this, but my suspicion is that some of it happens off the forums. I personally don’t really try to sell to people too far away because I don’t think its worth it after shipping, but I try to help those people out when I can.
This is the norm, not the exception for many brokers here I would imagine. And when you’re honest with people, customers can come back to you ten-fold through referrals. I started this to be the antithesis of the experience most people have at the dealer.
I get this a lot too. Porsche is a tough brand on this forum and I’m not interested in selling outside my region, but I typically get questions from people daily about programs or local to them deals. I help out where I can and clarify any questions they have.
Also when I joined, @Ursus was un-trusted, which I thought meant he gave bad advice, not that he was formally a moderator. For example, there is a similar flair for this on r/askcarsales given to users who constantly post bad advice. If someone is a moderator, it should be clear. The nomenclature should be industry folk, dealer/broker, and moderator. Trusted hacker is a good title, but doesn’t convey what the role is intended to be.
Just for clarity, Ursus’ “untrusted hackr” title was self-given but wasn’t a formal one that showed up under his name. I don’t recall the circumstances around how he originally lost moderating privileges, but I get the point you’re making about role definition — especially to bring clarity to new users.
I think when we first established a set of “trusted hackrs”, the forum was still in its infancy and the site admins were looking for folks who could help manage forum hygiene. It was really just granted to long-time members who were knowledgeable and showed an eagerness to help keep the peace and keep things organized.
Your point about clearer roles is definitely a good one, though, and I agree that it probably will be helpful to have as the site continues to grow.
Recall you telling me it’s ok for somebody to attack someone in a pm, as soon as I fire back I catch a ban, unban the account and I’ll gladly pull the screenshots of private messages we had.
I’m not blaming you, I’m just saying if I tell somebody it’s ok to “punch” someone in order to defend myseld and then you arrest me for assault that would be entrapment…
Like I said long time ago, Don’t care, I Don’t engage people in arguments anymore because people can’t have a spirited discussion without going full nuclear.
Just saying my peace, whether you admit it or not multiple th are essentially calling this out. Like I said Don’t care about title, I’m just here to clear the air.
The majority of TH have not taken this thread very well, ironically the one guy I avoid see’s what I see and agrees to an extent.
Works both ways, there are a lot of “entitled” members, I would go so far as to say there are a lot of entitled th, I’m not singling you out as I think you stay pretty even keeled and are consistently responding to the thread.
I’m probably the most obvious example here and it’s clear the majority of TH know this, some of the process on deciding fates of members is overzealous imo.
Buddy, go through my day 1 post history, it’s clear and obvious who I am, if I was called out on day 1 I wouldn’t have denied it.
Yes I learned not to trust anyones advice, not to engage in arguments and just engage in productive talks.
Don’t really care if I get “ganged up on” or not to be honest, just getting tired of alluding to this issue. Just thought I would put it all out there so nobody else had anything else to say.
Like I said I couldn’t care less just pointing out what I see, the forum is fine on mods but couldn’t hurt to add more “veteran” tags.
While I haven’t been a member that long I like to think I’ve jumped into this community head first a bit. I’ve had many conversations with brokers, dealers, and other members already In the short several months since joining. That being said I have noticed some instances of mods being “trigger happy” (for lack of a better word) when it comes to brokers pages. I’ve also noticed some mods be blatantly rude or just nasty to new members and long time members/brokers/dealers. Stuff that when I saw it I said that’s got to be so unbecoming to see as a new member… I could understand how some come here and could never come back because they caught one of the more senile/quick to anger mods. I’ve also seen some TH’ers completely talk down and belittle new members when there is no way in them ever knowing where to begin (yes I know there’s the handful of people who completely disregard great advice time and again but that doesn’t mean they’re all inherently “bad”). I’ve also seen them help tremendously and show tons of patience with new people.
Just my perspective and what I’ve noticed since shortly joining.
Agreed with quantity = quality in terms of TH. Voting TH in seems like a great idea if it’s done properly by long standing members whom know the personalities well (however much validity that carries). How that’s achieved is obviously what needs to be figured out, cause I’ve noticed said mod(s) consistently commit the same issue over different threads.
@cyak you should call out whoever you’re talking about, in my opinion. Letting things linger doesn’t end well, and I think the perspective of someone new is certainly useful. But that’s just me, I try to stay out of most drama.
My take is this, especially being someone who is very technologically inclined, and knowing how frustrating it is when people don’t search, I think we do have to realize some of the new members here literally may have never used a forum before, or forum software. I definitely have worked with one or two clients who found the forum hard to understand or navigate.
Now, when some 21 year old kid comes on whose parents wanted to buy them a Honda but he convinced them to lease a BMW instead because a 330i demo is just the coolest and super cheap, and they come on and ask to be spoon fed, I can understand the frustration there.
Another forum I’ve participated in had a thread dedicated specifically for members to bring up complaints with over moderation / bias against them. It was a good way to clear the air - 90% of the time, the community would come to a resolution without having to escalate to admins or site owners. Are we mature enough on here for something like that?
I doubt it. Most here seem to act like if you ignore the problem for long enough it will just fix itself up or go away. What I don’t understand is why some THs don’t act the remedy the situation when things get out of hand due to other THs or don’t reopen treads closed prematurely.
I don’t fricking buy it that some of you didn’t see these issues happening last year…are you just being polite towards your team? Are you afraid to step on toes?
Sounds good, let me know if you find them. That doesn’t sound right, and inconsistent with the screenshots I do have, but happy to be proven wrong. I don’t have the originals either because the account was banned.
But to your point, if there are concerns about my moderating they’ll be moot soon.
I think @jananth1‘s idea is a good one. We’ve certainly had conversations (and still do, frequently) among the TH group about appropriate ways to handle certain situations, guidelines, attitudes, etc.
But based on some of the replies here, it sounds like there are users who definitely have some significant beef with one or two THs. Rather than continue to make assumptions and allow things to boil for prolonged periods unchecked, issues should be raised sooner and when they happen.
Believe it or not, the TH group consists of a bunch of guys (and gal) who enjoy giving time to support our growing community and try to do it in the best way possible . We ain’t perfect, though. And there’s no harm in people offering constructive criticism. I’m all about that and try to avoid combative situations by encouraging civility.
Yes, i often hold back against my instincts to unload on them because I realize they aren’t paid for what they are doing… beggars can’t be choosers, right? Besides, all this will be forgotten in a month or so anyway.
Hi @Mark.ca , you are right. We were aware of the issues and have been working on it as a group. Criticism accepted.
I like that idea. Instead of discussing moderation issues internally among Trusted Hackrs, we can open the discussion to the public. We often disagree but we learn to agree to disagree. The decision-making process can benefit from more diverse and balanced voices.
The original idea for @trusted_legacy_group was to recognize and thank knowledgeable members for their active contribution. The moderation privilege was our way of recognition – we trust them to be the community leaders. Hence “trusted hackrs”. Moderation privilege was never meant to be an obligation (more of a perk), though we are certainly tremendously thankful for their moderation effort.
Thank you all for your constructive criticism and helpful suggestions. Now let’s learn from our mistakes and instill some positivity for 2021? I am looking forward to the new addition to @trusted_hackrs!
This right here is the right way forward. If there are issues, let’s respectfully address them. Last thing we want on the forum is drama and hostility that takes away from our passion (which is hacking cars).
I think this answers the questions around “obligations” for THs. We have the ability to perform moderation tasks but it isn’t a requirement.
. We ain’t perfect, though. And there’s no harm in people offering constructive criticism. I’m all about that and try to avoid combative situations by encouraging civility.