I agree with most of this as well. But I’d also think a public flogging for the dealership is in order. After all we’re here to help each other and I think a boycott is in order. I do want to see proof along with that though, not that I don’t believe OP, but it’s necessary to see the whole picture.
Regardless this has been an interesting case study here at leasehackr
Frankly, if the dealer isn’t complicit in this, the OP should be getting a call from the authorities on this anyway.
If that phone call doesn’t happen, all the more reason he should be making it himself.
Better value for tuition than HBS.
Let’s disregard the 10k vs 12k mile mistake…
What was the agreed upon monthly payment, MSD, and total due at signing?
If the numbers are the same as you agreed upon, but they got to them using a different method (albeit crooked), why does it matter?
So who is the infamous broker?
Thanks for sharing. I will let others chime in but , faking your signatures or not, BMW or any brand would give dealer a hard time accepting that as a contract. Im pretty sure that fixing the mileage like that on a contract is not acceptable by bank and this has to be the laziest F&I guy on the face of earth. They had to send you a brand new copy with corrections and get it resigned which is normaly how such situations are handled and happens a lot, not so uncommon but this…
BMW is very strict on copies of paperwork and infact I was once told by a dealer that they do no accept initials to corrections on a contract. On the rest of the docs is fine but not on the actual lease agreement.
Let’s not jokingly throw people under the bus that have nothing to do with this.
@mllcb42 I understand they should, however feel that OP just wants a car. My point was that If the DA decides to prosecute OP will be pulled into criminal case as a witness. Just more pain and suffering for him. Don’t think he really wants any of that.
@sosnocor isn’t he a dealer employee. If not we all certainly felt the #utzfactor tonight, most definitely OP!
[quotes=“rockymn, post:102, topic:328179”]
Well, for you as you are in the sales game and have a thick skin. Everyone is not same buddy.
[/quote]
I’m with you here man 100% from the beginning I was on your side. I thought they gave you $900+ broker fee returned and got your additional miles today. I said that was acceptable for what you’re out. I’m on your team here! Do you deserve 10k. No. But you should report this imo to the proper avenues. And if not happy with the deal return the car and push for compensation for your time and damages.
As litigious as this thread is I suggest not slandering the utz factor. That’s extremely libelous and I motion to strike.
Obviously there is evidence here to support criminal fraud and I am not saying this should go unpunished, but ask yourself how much longer you want to go on once the contract itself is remedied? A call to their local DA or attorney general might be in order, but anything short of a class action type lawsuit isn’t worth the effort. Other than a rogue FI manager, you have no evidence to support anyone else was in on it. The burden of proof is much higher in court and even lawyers for small dealers will bury you in legal fees and years of preliminary findings before it ever sees a judge.
IMO the proper course here is to unwind the deal so you don’t reward bad behavior. Now mistakes and poor choices happen and can sometimes be forgiven. But changing the terms of a signed contract is not one of them. A car deal confirms this behavior as acceptable. Return the car and find another broker. BMWs are a dime a dozen.
I have been following this thread and reading all the comments. There has been a lot of advice offered. My only suggestion is to take a break from LH before making a final decision.
But then he’s out all his time and back to square one with no car. In that case I think he’s entitled to several thousand at least.
$1000 from dealer, $500 broker and correct mileage is what I would settle for and reporting the dealer when that’s all squared away. That’s how you don’t reward the bad behavior
I feel broker should do their due and return the fee due to the stress caused over the mess. Least the broker could do …since afterall the customer blindly trusts the dealer because of the broker.
The middle man in trust chain didn’t work out. It would be nice of broker to return the fee due to what appears to be many hours of stress and uncertainty for OP.
I disagree. $1000 is pocket change to a dealer and if this is a common theme at this one dealer, the threat of being reported or actually reported isn’t going to stop them since the benefits of moving metal outweighs potential small damages. Sales numbers are king and hurting those figures changes processes and personal.
Unfortunately wasted time is a factor for OP. No way to get that back except using it as a learning moment going forward.
OP, everything happens for a reason!
After the dust settles down…what would make you whole? You have to focus and decide for yourself
We all understand crappy things do happen…But a bigger question is what we can do about it? How do we educate ourselves and our people!
The simple fact of courage is you decided to bring it in open and ask what can be done and how?
Now get the things in order and act accordingly! In the end, I believe you will be lot more happy & content with your own decisions!
I know many on this forum are ready to lynch and destroy the broker and the dealer…but is it possible that the dealer was just trying to correct honest mistakes in the paperwork?
If I’m reading it correctly, the lease you signed only gave you 4k miles per year (12k total). The “faked” lease increased that to 10k miles per year (30k total). Maybe the F&I person realized the 12k total miles was a mistake and tried to correct it…but accidentally entered 30k instead of 36k. If they were trying to screw you, wouldn’t they have just submitted the lease you signed for 4k miles per year?
The cap cost amount was increased on the “faked” lease from the original lease. Is it possible that they quoted you, and you agreed to, a lease payment that included the loyalty rebate (or some other rebate). But when they sent the paperwork, they forgot to include the loyalty rebate so they tried to correct it? The “faked” lease has a higher cap cost but they never asked you to pay $700 more than you already paid, correct?
I don’t know whether this was a nefarious act or not. But I think you should consider all the possibilities before deciding your course of action. I agree with the suggestion of taking a break from LH before making a decision.
Out of curiosity, as part of your paperwork, did you sign a power of attorney with the dealer that allows them to correct clerical errors that do not change the major terms of the deal?
The dealer reply tells you everything you need to know about this “mistake”…it wasn’t really.
I agree with some that say not to involve the authorities unless you really want to go after this guy that you don’t even know.
Make the dealer understand a monetary compensation is in order but do not ask, let them make the offer. Play the entire negotiation game. I’m sure they make alot of money with their scams so shedding $5k should not be a problem for them. They will look at it as a price to do business. Of course, keep the car deal too…no reason to start all over. I’m not sure the broker has any fault here…i would be inclined to give him a break if the dealer pays.
All I read is that the dealer agreed to correct the lease to 12k miles…and lower the agreed upon monthly payment. Did I miss something that indicates the dealer has admitted to fraud?
OP, it appears that, except for the mileage, all of the agreed upon terms (lease term, cash due at signing, monthly payment) are correct. Can you confirm?
You signed a lease with 4k miles per year. The dealer changed it to 10k miles per year. If you argue that you mistakenly signed for 4k miles, is the dealer allowed to argue that they mistakenly corrected it to 10k miles instead of 12k miles per year?
Again, I don’t know whether the dealer employee or the dealer had bad intentions. But I couldn’t reach that conclusion with the facts presented thus far. Changing the residual raises questions but based on all of the facts (OP signed a lease for 4k miles, dealer changed to 10k miles, OP expected 12k miles, dealer agreed to change to 12k miles), I would leave open the possibility that this was an honest mistake and a good faith effort to fix the mistake.
Good luck.