Some serious red flags.
This is a pretty serious matter and the GSM seems to have a nonchalant/apathetic mood about it. I would of reached out directly to the GM by now; Time is the most valuable commodity at the end of the day.
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Itâs serious but Iâm not sure what the damage to the OP would be here that would substantiate some kind of further compensation. At this stage, the next step would be to involve the police and lawyers. Suggesting to the GSM or owner to compensate further could lead to counter claims on the dealers part.
I recall a user on the Audi forum who took his Q7 in for service and caught a valet at his dealership stealing money out of his glove box. He contacted the dealership and they fired the employee, returned his money and comped his service. This guy felt wronged and wanted more. The result was legal action where he was accused of trying to extort them for money and he ended up with egg on his face.
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Iâm curious what the brokerâs opinion is on this. I assume that he or she has a long standing relationship with the dealer and knows the people well.
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That is between you and the broker. I would just consider: how much effort before you hired a broker? Could you get this deal (what you thought you signed of what you got) on your own, on the car you wanted? You have definitely been inconvenienced, but I would take it in the larger perspective.
Most of the deals that the brokers have on the forum are pretty competitive with each other. There might be 1% or 0.5% difference between them but theyâre pretty close to each other. However, my opinion is that you might be taking the larger perspective on this one. An employee who represents the dealership made a calculated effort and committed fraud⌠to which OP was the victim.
OP has spent a significant amount of time and stress dealing with this and that lays at the feet of the broker. The broker is in the business of connecting buyers and sellers and gets paid to ensure a seamless transaction for both⌠to which they have clearly failed.
While I donât dispute your characterization, a fraudy stealership would not be so responsive to make it right so quickly.
By OPâs account, the dealership has done nothing more than what they should have done in the first place. They have not provided an additional discount on the car. They had an opportunity to recover from the service failure but in my view, it would appear as if they have failed to do so.
If I was OP, I would get BMWNA involved, as this has likely impacted your view of the Brand. I had a similar issue with Infiniti about 8 years ago and once Corporate got involved, things actually got moving.
@rockmyn I would also name and shame both the dealer and the broker. No matter what the end result, this experience did happen.
Future customers would want to know who it was and take it into consideration as to whether they would work with the broker and dealer. Of course, I would wait to see how everything is settled but I think that transparency is important.
I didnât know the $900 wasnât extra money off. In that case you didnât get compensated at all and itâs not acceptable. I also advocated you to get your money back from the broker. I would have refunded you immediately here.
Also it didnât sound like you spent 9 hours on it. Just a few exchanges with the dealer and time on the forum. So $100/hr sounds ok in my book but youâre not getting that.
I also said get your money back and still report this to the proper channels.
I agree but that really is between you and the broker, as someone else said not anyone here on this thread. You make a good point that you go to a broker to save time and hassle and they have not done that but also itâs not like you can just ask. They have to agree.
I have the same question. Sounds like OP is getting a $24 better deal bottom line. If not, maybe some monetary adjustment is warranted but not $10K like @mattevan suggests (IMO). If you have spent 10 hours (hopefully not including updating this thread) then $864 for 10 hours seems decent. If someone offered you $864 to stand on the corner for 10 hours (or sit on hold on the phone), would you do it?
This is classic âgetting greedy.â
Agreed.
I wouldnât call it nonchalant. The fact is that the dealer is trying to make it right and it sounds like they are paying the OP for their troubles. I would agree that the stress and hassle are an issue (though not sure how much hassle as the OP said the broker was assisting) but what else would one want? If true, someone is also getting fired. There is no reason to continue being upset if they have rectified. They even seem to be compensating a bit. I do not however, like that the GSM is acting like they are doing OP a favor.
I am not an attorney and I am not sure if you are but the fraud portion of the matter is a criminal issue between the D.A. and the culprit. The OP would only be called in to testify. OP could bring this to the attention of the D.A. but they may not care. Especially if the dealer is cooperating. Any civil action would center on whether the OP was harmed in anyway and the dealer would have to make it right. If the dealer is offering to re-write and lower the payment then what damages can the OP claim? Pain and sufferings? Go for it and good luck. Sending such a letter would only help to inflame the situation and in any case the amount is outrageous (which would probably lead to the GM or GSM to feel like they do not want to do anything for OP but re-write). I think that is bad advice. If the OP feels they are owed more than they should request it but again, if this has to go any further, what damages is the OP going to claim. All the dealer has to say is: I offered to fix the contract, I fired the individual that made the change, and offered to lower their payment. Any judge would probably look at the OP and their DEMAND for $10K and be like: What is the problem here . I keep imagining Judge Judy.
Are they supposed to? I think in reality the dealer only needs to fire the fraudster and then re-write the contract to the terms agreed to by the OP. Anything above that would simply be to make the customer happy. That is the dealerâs prerogative they are not obligated to do that. Now the OP says that they are not doing anything extra but if his payment goes down from what he agreed to in the first place with no additional money out of pocket then they are saving money but again, at the discretion of the dealership. Not needed to âmake the OP right.â
They will not care and tell him to work it out with the dealer. You know this. Maybe Infiniti got the ball moving for you but in the end, it was the dealer that made things right in your situation 8 years ago, I am sure. Turning into a Karen is not the solution IMO. Only reach out to BMW if the dealer refuses to fix the issue.
P.S. OP, from this point forward anything anyone shares on here is just a debate for entertainment purposes (I am certainly entertained). Seems like you have the attention of all the parties involved. How much you stamp your foot (not being condescending) or make demands depends on you. What you get more than what they have already offered is a crap shoot and will only come from your further efforts and stress. So, take everyoneâs advice here (including my own) with a grain of salt. And in any case, please let us know what the result is.
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I feel the sameâŚthey talk about $900 extra to OP is some big deal and a full compensation for the fraud the dealer committed.
Think about it for a secondâŚyou fake someoneâs signature on a contract with say a bank and you end up in jail. The dealer gets to apologize and honor the original deal?! LolâŚfuck no!!! Ask for more money!
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If this goes to lawyers or attorneys general and the broker isnât authorized to broker cars this will be very bad for him or her.
@Calvin.MB damn right itâs extreme. So is felony interstate fraud. 10,000 is low here.
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Given the additional detail provided, Iâm changing my opinion - there has not been enough done here given the severity and nonchalant responses.
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I donât think asking for money is the right path here personally.
Once the dealer has honored the original deal, the financial obligation is done in my book. If they want to do extra as a good faith, good for them.
In my opinion, the only acceptable action is for the dealer to be an active participant in the criminal case against the finance guy. If they didnât call the police themselves and thinks that this is somehow appropriately resolved by simply firing the guy, theyâre being complicit in the issue.
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the rebates werenât âfiddled withâ. they scammed your loyalty.
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What ever happened to that guy last year who was sure he was going to get like a million dollar settlement over a minor typo on a contract?
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Any attorneys here? There is a criminal case ie fraud, but Iâm not sure there are damages to the buyer other than 2,000 miles a year?
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Are you serious? Bro, you donât know anything about car business.
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Are they supposed to? I think in reality the dealer only needs to fire the fraudster and then re-write the contract to the terms agreed to by the OP. Anything above that would simply be to make the customer happy.
I agree - they are not required to, however, it is in their best interest to keep a customer who has truthful and accurate information that paints their business in a very negative light happy. If somebody falsified your information and wasted 10 hours of your time, would you be happy with the resolution being that you got what you originally agreed upon?
They will not care and tell him to work it out with the dealer. You know this. Maybe Infiniti got the ball moving for you but in the end, it was the dealer that made things right in your situation 8 years ago, I am sure. Turning into a Karen is not the solution IMO. Only reach out to BMW if the dealer refuses to fix the issue.
Actually thatâs incorrect. Infiniti voided the contract, made the dealer take the car back, and refunded all payments made to date (4 months and the drive offs). They also offered to put me into another vehicle at a significant discount but I passed. Respectfully, escalating issues such as fraud to corporate is not âturning into a Karenâ, it is the appropriate course of action. Who really knows if it was a single person or a dealership problem starting at the top.
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I was going to say this as well. Iâd like to see the paperwork to see whatâs going on here. Itâs easier to figure out what their goal was in this fraud seeing the evidence. I suspected they were pocketing incentives as well.
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This is so confusing. OP is there anyway you can post pics of the contract which you signed which showed 12k miles ? (Redact your personal info and vin)
And can you post the pics of the copy they emailed or mailed you which is the different contract with less mileage allotment and different rebates ?
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I think higher-ups were involved in this - No way a manager has the balls to lose his job over one contract unless its been done many times before â This looks like something they have done before and when caught quickly offer some small compensation.
This involves a bank and I think the right thing to do is notify the lending institution.
I used to work on restructuring large loans and the most important thing is making sure the contract is absolutly correct - I would reread the restructuring agreement 5 times â The fact that someone forged signatures is a massive fiscal/reputation penalty
Its up to the OP how he wants to pursue it but I would get a informal/formal opinion from a contract attorney â You might get more than $800 lol
Also that vacation story is almost certainly straight bull
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@rockymn I feel for you and the stress they put you through. However reality is reality. I am a firm believer in avoiding life hassles and headaches.
Been following this thread and we all know they are not firing anyone they are just telling the customer what he wants to hear. Based on comments by @Jrouleau426 and @aronchi, if indeed true, about falsification of the loyalty it seems the dealer is fine with unscrupulous conduct.
I agree with @mllcb42 that dealer is under no obligation to provide anything additional. They arenât Nordstrom and are probably not going to provide any form for substantial compensation. They will just offer to unwind the deal and sell it someone it else at a higher profit margin.
The real question is if the headache going forth is the worth the reward? You just wanted a car at a good deal. All you signed up for. Truly unfortunate this happened.
Civil case, headache on itâs own and you probably arenât going to get anything substantial. Dealer honored the deal in the end and will probably even offer to unwind the deal cover shipping back. So the question is what are the damages? I doubt a lawyer would take this on contingency. Credit check and a day of car shopping?
All this nonsense about a criminal caseâŚnot sure if you want to be involved in some like that. It would just in additional headaches. Having to respond to subpoenas and show up in courtâŚdoubt you would get compensated for your expenses and time off work.
At this point I would demand the dealer unwind the deal and they would have to take the car back. The question isâŚdid they cover the shipping expense to you? If you paid for shipping then have them reimburse you, as well cover shipping back. Walk away and call it a day or keep the car and ask them for that exact amount for shipping as compensation.
If you really want to do something report them to the dealer board or administration for the state the dealership operates in. If it is a corporate dealer report it to their HQ.
Apologize if I sounded harsh but this is probably the reality of the situation.
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Thank you everyone for your help! I seems like some of us have strong and conflicting opinions here but I the dealer should not get away with a slap on the wrist. I think that there is more then one person involved here. I doubt anyone is getting fired over it. They just said this to please me.
On popular demand here are the forged number/papers. @mani_is_kool @aronchi
First one is what I signed and second one is the forged copy.
To me it seems like, the FI guy(or the whole team) claimed loyalty on my behalf(Added $750 to the rebate) What they submitted to BMW might be totally different and this one was created show that they can share the docs with me as I asked for it.
- They never sent me scanned copy of docs to preview
- Did not send the signed docs with the car
- Only sent the forged docs after I asked for it again
I agree
I agree! I actually feel for others who will discover this down the road. I think these guys have been filing rebates on customerâs behalf to pocket it.
I will have to disagree here. This has caused a lot of stress to me and it started on Jan 4th.
Well, for you as you are in the sales game and have a thick skin. Everyone is not same buddy.
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