Nope. This dude (or dudes seems to be the consensus) changed the mileage, the price, the rebate, the residual. After seeing that, it is obvious that they were trying to swallow-up the OPs rebates and making more gross.
On a somewhat related note, no one has pointed out that the evidence suggests others may have been involved other than just the F&I guy. If I were the F&I guy and I were going to commit this kind of fraud I would put all that money into the backend (accessories, rate, warranty, etch, etc.) and not the price. F&I does not get paid on the selling price.
I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about what dealers are and are not allowed to do and how these deals, and unfortunately many F&I personnel, work in general. Even if they were allowed to fix clerical errors, changing the mileage is not a clerical error. However, as noted in other posts, they changed more than just the mileage. Believe me and everyone on here, it was in no way no how an āhonest mistake.ā
crazy to me that there are posts that are like āmehā to complete fraud. i was pissed when the GM of a dealership slipped in an extra 1k charge into the contract i negotiated for my in-laws (oops sorry dont know how that happenedā¦) i canāt imagine how pissed iād be if every f-ing detail of the contract was forged and changed. i suppose the casualness is an indictment of how the industry itself behaves which is pretty sad.
Iām definitely not an expert. Since you have a better understanding of how things work, please explain how you would handle this situation if you were the F&I personnel:
You received a lease contract from an out of state buyer on the last day of the month (I believe Jan 4 counted as Dec sales). It has a lease mileage allowance for 4k miles per year. The contract cannot be submitted to BMWFS because the mileage allowance doesnāt match the residual. You donāt have time for the buyer to resign a corrected contract. How would you handle? Again, Iām not saying the dealer handled it in the best way possible. Iām just saying I donāt think the facts support the claim that they intended to defraud the OP.
Thatās not what Iām saying. If I thought the facts proved conclusively that the dealer intended to defraud the buyer, I would go after the dealer for actual damages and punitive damages. I personally cannot reach that conclusion based on the facts presented thus far. Before post #100 in the thread, I was more suspect of the dealerās intentions based on the OPās description that the dealer simply changed the contract for no reason. But after seeing the original contract only allowed for 4k miles per year, I recognize that the original contract would be rejected by BMWFS. That fact made me reconsider the situation. Iām just stating my opinion. Everyone can reach their own conclusions.
For everyone that wants to sue the dealer, criminally prosecute the dealer, and file complaints with BMWNA, remember this post the next time you find a unicorn deal and the dealer refuses to work with you because you are an out of state buyer.
Well, if that were the case, this would not be the first time or the last time it were going to happen. People make errors all the time. As such, the banks and factories have processes to allow for this sort of ādelayā. So, I wouldnāt āhandleā anything there would be no need. I would simply call the customer and let them know their contract has an error and we need to re-write the contract. This could be done any time after the ālast dayā of the month/program/whatever. I would explain that all terms would remain the same (and note that the miles were incorrect and that correcting the contract would be to their benefit - assuming that what you assume is what happened, which is not). Done. No hurry, no fraud, no excuse.
The bank does not care when the contract is received as long as it was approved prior to the last day of whatever program you are using. You could send a contract in to the bank two whole months late and the bank would not care. They just would deduct from your funding any payments that have already become due. Further, the factory doesnāt really care if a contract is signed (I mean they do but it is not something they verify). So, the dealer could report the car as sold on the last day of the month even though the contract is not correct or āvalid.ā In fact, some dealers report vehicles sold without having a buyer. They might do this if they are one or two units shy of a factory bonus for the dealer, which could net them tens of thousands of dollars. Then they just worry about it next month and put the car on ad or whatever, as reporting it starts the warranty clock. The buyer may not even be aware they are losing one or more months of warranty.
Hence, there would be no reason to ācorrectā any errors with good intentions. The only right path would be to get a new contract signed no matter how much time it took to get it right (or unwind the deal is you get a customer that wants to take advantage of the situation).
The facts support it. I am telling you, no room to give benefit of the doubt on this one. Someone did something shady.
Youāve got a lot of advice here, OP. Do make sure to go back to the dealership and figure out what happened and put it on them to remedy the situation. I also think your broker has a certain level of responsibility here since s/he facilitated the transaction and you compensated them for it. This should have been caught unless the dealership completely blindsided everyone.
Iāve refunded my fee for much, much less then this to keep my buyers happy. Iām firmly in the refund camp here and as soon as my buyer showed me that changed contract they would have their $500 back and I would have retained counsel for both of us if it was deemed necessary by my client to go that far.
If the dealer handled everything properly, and cleaned house of the perpetrating parties, I would try and convince my buyer litigation isnāt necessarily worth it but the fraud was committed on him so itās ultimately his decision. With this dealer I doubt you will ever know if anyone was sacked for this and once he accepts payment they might, from a risk/reward standpoint, go back to their old tricks.
Out of good faith Iām responsible for the dealers I align my clients with. Our deals can be replicated with hard work, buyers come to us for a seamless process. When I canāt provide what I was hired to do, I donāt deserve compensation regardless which party is at fault. Which is why Iām very picky who I work deals with, dealerships and other brokers included. I eat mistakes for my dealers and they do it for me sometimes as well, thatās part of the business, but this is clear cut fraud and the dealer admitted it. Thereās no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore.
A lot of shady shit goes on out there and leasehackr is fantastic for keeping brokers and dealers in check. Which is likely why thereās so many brokers that donāt use it as a resource and so many dealers that loathe the mention of the word leasehackr.
With an out of state deal, how could the broker have known?
In most out of state deals, the finance manager will TO the client on the phone, then mail the paperwork out.
When the buyer receives the paperwork, the broker reviews it with them and it gets sent back.
If the finance manager changes the contract after the buyer and broker review it, how could they know? How could anyone know?
I agree the broker has responsibility and is representing the transaction as a whole and connects buyer w dealer. No doubt this buyer has or will be receiving their broker fee back. Iām sure the broker has had bubble guts the past few days and is doing what they can.
But, I canāt think of a broker model for out of state business, where this could have been identified since it was a pass at the contract that theoretically, no one could have known about. Docusign aside.
There are established processes for correcting a contract with clerical errors, even after the end of the period. The solution is NEVER to write up a new contract and forge the signatures of the customer.
There is not a world where the proper solution to a clerical oops is commiting a federal felony.
Keep in mind that the sentencing guidelines here for federal mail fraud involving a bank (which this seems to squarely fall under) is up to 20 years and $100k fine.
Because they want you physically in a room to psychologically manipulate you into buying warranties you donāt need. This is much harder to do remotely.
Fraud is my understanding. The banks still want you to sign at a notary. We fedex our paperwork overnight for deals we ship and lately itās been taking 2-3 days with all the delays going on. DocuSign would be nice then the buyer could print and take to the notary.
Once a lease leaves the dealer for another state itās going to be almost impossible to find and likely will be leaving the country. I know we had a shipper pick up the wrong car once and just tracking that down was a disaster. In our big brother age I couldnāt believe Toyota couldnāt track the truck. It wound up in Vegas bound for Seattle. That was a deal I refunded the fee also!
Once you know everything is straight and the paperwork is done/funded, Iād probably roast this dealer on the survey, if you even get one. This is one of those cases where they deserve it.
Iāve heard stories of M5s being lost (presumed exported), Range Rover Full Sizes, Sports, and more being lost into the wind because of fraud, bad signatures etc.
Docusign is just typing your name. Notary is necessary, my clients understand (usually) that I have to have you sign the papers at your door. Some of my clients have their own notaries on staff, or are notaries themselves, but we always have to use one of our notaries the dealer contracts.
A dealer paying a bit to have a notary sent to your door, is so much more efficient than losing 6 figures on a car.
I had a similar situation with a dealer forging my signature on revised lease paperwork (mileage allowance and cost per excess had been left blank then they forged my signature on filled in version). I went to the manufacturer and posted negative, specific reviews on Google, Yelp and Facebook. It was quickly resolved, Those who say to sue are not factoring in that attorneys are expensive for what is not a major issue,
I donāt think I have actually seen anyone say to sue. I suggested speaking to an attorney at the very beginning, but thereās a big difference between having legal counsel advise a path forward and suing for damages.
Not that it has any bearing on the changed paperwork situation, but why use an out of state broker and out of state dealer for what looks like a typical deal on a base X3?
Update - Interesting twist
The GM just called me and nobody told him anything about what went wrong. He first heard this from me when I decided to copy him on the email that I sent to General Sales Manager who is not a GSM but a colleague of the sales rep with the same title(Sales Manager). GM said that he will talk to everyone in person and get back to me. At the same time he did not sound as shocked as her should be. He was not aware of the broker either. He tried to downplay the signature forging and was stressing that āOh! your payment did not changeā. At that point I told him that it would had cost me $2000 if I would had found this 3 years later or so.
These guys lied to my broker too as they told him that GM was made aware of the situation and they are trying to rectify it.
The GM said he will get back to me tomorrow morning.
OP, let them make it right and give you some money. Get the broker fee back too and move on with your lifeā¦ believe me, im not sure what youāre looking to do here but I went back to look at your posts and even you said you were a frugal shopper.
Do you really have time to try and persecute these guys or reach out to an attorney? No attorney is going to take a case like this without a retainer. Dont even waste your time. Think litigation is fun? Its not. ANY DA or judge is going to tell you to sort this out between yourselves or the BBB.
You prob got a good deal from the broker --have the broker return his fee. Let the dealer fix the mileage mistake and give you some cash which should equate to a nice deal on your loaner 2021 X3.
Florida BMW deals are straight ass which is why you went out of state to get a deal. Take your money, enjoy your new X3 and move on with your life. Wanna feel good at the end? Give the dealership a shitty score when BMWFS calls to rate them.
Itās scary how lightly the dealer is taking this. I donāt think the GSM is firing anybody. It was likely said just to be said. I think theyāre trying to drag this as much as possible in the hopes that youāll get frustrated and just accept whatever. I stick to my earlier point that when this is looked at as a whole, theyāre really getting away with it.
They might do this if they are one or two units shy of a factory bonus for the dealer, which could net them tens of thousands of dollars. Then they just worry about it next month and put the car on ad or whatever, as reporting it starts the warranty clock. The buyer may not even be aware they are losing one or more months of warranty.
