And sometimes in Private Transfers too
Edit: might as well link to Marketplace as well
This is a good deal for a 23 VW Arteon…That said it is a bad deal for a 52k sedan
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I want to know what clique-kool-aid the Trusteds keep drinking where they follow in their collective footsteps to keep parroting that every ICE lease brought up on this site is terrible.
What is terrible is the agenda they keep pushing in every ICE thread on LH. Trism and Max usually take the lead, talking about how the deal isn’t a unicorn so it’s a bad deal. “You can get two unicorn 5 series for the price of this lease tee hee giggle giggle”. Such smugness from those that are supposed to be trusted.
The other often parroted oddball-advice is is say financing is better with zero data to prove that position. To get the effective monthly to beat the lease… you’d have to own this vehicle for almost 60 months if financed at VW’s APR on a 5 year loan. Plus your monthly payments would be massive compared to the lease.
Of course someone saves money if they drive a financed vehicle for 60s+ months. Or to get into a CPO. Like no sh!t. Driving a used car saves money versus new. But this is a leasing forum about new cars. What gives? Why are these trusted lease hackers if they simply want people to drive used cars as the solution?
I thought this forum was to educate people on leases and help them get into leases on new cars. Instead these “trusteds” just judge the hell out of people for wanting to lease a particular car.
You’re spot on… this lease is pretty good for a new '23 Arteon. But the Arteon isn’t a cheap car to get for a $52k MSRP even with discounts. A loan on this car new car isn’t much of a better proposition than leasing it. Since the drag is caused by the car’s massive depreciation, not the way the financing structure works. Having the title in the borrower’s name with a big lien on it still exposes the person to the depreciation.
If someone really likes the Arteon since they don’t like EVs, this deal isn’t terrible.
I totally agree that there has been a lot of repetitive “lease stink, esp on ICE cars, look at EVs or don’t lease,” but I do think that the Arteon is a uniquely bad proposition. Why? IIRC, RV is freq (always?) in the upper 40s.
I’m too lazy to look at used car prices, but are real-world prices for a Arteon better than that? I imagine so, but I don’t know.
I think a similar effective monthly could get you a base C-Class/3-Series (and probably a decently optioned A4)? Or, depending on the month, a non-unicorn base A4 Sportback. I say this as a VW owner (and as someone considering an Arteon): I think I would rather drive a base C-Class/3-Series than a a full-optioned out Arteon (esp b/c the VW service experience is not great).
JMHO.
I’m not an expert, but I really don’t see what has you so exercised. Can’t you lease an Audi A4 45 TFSI for about what he quoted, or maybe even less? The OP asked for feedback on the deal.
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It’s because max_g and oftentimes his good pal trism goes into every ICE lease thread on this forum and say the same old trope about how that ICE lease sucks and another vehicle is better. But they don’t actually offer help.
They’ll into C Class, 3 Series, and A4 lease threads to talk about how unicorn leases would lease better than those ICE. There’s never a ICE car that’s good enough for them unless it’s a unicorn.
Here’s a thread about a A6 for less than this guy’s Arteon. And Max takes his dump on that one too.
There’s one thing to provide feedback. There’s another thing to lecture people about how leasing doesn’t result in positive equity after the term and is a terrible idea. In. Every. Single. Thread.
You’re right. Real world use (own or lease) of this particular car isn’t a optimal financial decision. And some other cars will have a cheaper TCO whether it be a lease or loan. But this site has adopted some oddball group-think that says financing with a loan is somehow always better than a lease.
Sometimes that is true, but sometimes that is not. In this case, VW is offering a fairly low buy rate MF, which makes leasing a new Arteon better than loan/borrowing a new Arteon if the intention is to roll it over within 48 months.
Are there other cars better than a new Arteon? Sure. But imagine if every thread on LH simply said “buy a 8 year old used Civic with cash, it’s a smarter financial decision”. While this may be true, it’s definitely against the spirt of the site.
Full disclosure here. Earlier this year, I looked into financing a new 2023 $52k Arteon. I did not even consider leasing one given the low 40s residual value. Dealers near me (MA, NH, RI, CT) were only discounting the car by not more than $4k off + $2k in dealer cash a month ago. Pretty much similar deal OP is getting.
I normally don’t push folks towards financing a new car, since this is a leasing forum. However, most ICE sedans are leasing very poorly this year.
I am not sure if OP would be able to get a base 330i/A4, or C Class for the same payment. No offense, but those models are much smaller in size and less powerful than the Arteon. I believe the 2023 Arteon produces 300hp and 295 lb-ft of torque. The top trim level that OP is looking at has a lot more features than a base luxury German car.
At the end of the day, OP has to make a decision. I am just here to share my knowledge. I am on my second lease ('18 A4 and '21 A6). Folks are free to do whatever they want with the information I post here.
@yokogaijin - Can you confirm this?
Is the Arteon in your preferred color combination?
EDIT: I am pretty sure that discount includes $2k in dealer cash, since current offers on this car end on March 4th.
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I see where you’re coming from! I appreciate that there are a variety of perspectives here.
Oh really? I assumed the Arteon shared the A4 platform. Is it closer to the A6? I’ve had an A4, but never had an A6.
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The Arteon is similar in size to the A5 Sportback. I think it might be a little longer and wider. I have not compared exact dimensions.
The Arteon is closer to the A7 in size. I came from an Arteon (now in S5 SB).
Good to know.
Those hakrs you mentioned are still stuck in 2019-2020. “Hey a 43k 3 series loaner used to be mid 300’s sign and drive so any lease compared to that sucks” or they are deep into the EV leases.
Not everyone just drives the payment.
If you notice they didn’t comment on my thread about a fun weekend car. That’s because the idea of driving something that they actually like, if they are capable of liking a vehicle at all, is so foreign to them.
please note I am incorrect about the last bit
There’s a whole lot of debating going on here. For nothing guys - let’s not make this personal.
To the OP - this is not a good lease. There’s no way around it. If this is the car you want regardless, you’ve negotiated the deal as close to as good as it’s going to get on an Arteon.
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The Arteon shares the same platform (MQB) as a Jetta and Golf. The A4 uses the MLB platform used by virtually every other Audi.
A SoCal broker is offering an A6 Premium + Convenience Package + Black Optic Sport package ($63K MSRP) for an effective $650/mo (36 mo/7.5K mi). It is not being advertised as a unicorn.
The Arteon SEL still probably has more standard equipment and power, but I can’t imagine most would choose to pay more for a full-loaded Arteon than a decently optioned A6.
At least two of the ones mentioned here did, actually…
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Even if you adjust the mileage to 10k miles, the A6 is the better value. The A6 Premium might not have the surround view camera, ventilated front seats or upgraded sound system like the Arteon, but I would take it any day over the VW.
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I will eat my helping of crow, you are correct
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@Bluemkn57cars The quote I posted above is Moonstone Grey with black interior. It’s my second choice but here in Socal not much of choices. Very limited availability of choices. My first choice is actually Kingfisher Blue Metallic with
Stone/Raven interior and R-Line SEL Premium trim. I could not locate this combo anywhere around here. So I’d just go with the Moonstone Grey. Actually with Moonstone Grey my first interior choice is also
Stone/Raven there isn’t one available around here. So I’d just settle with the black interior, it’s not too big of a deal to me.
@yokotrain I know it isn’t apples to apples, but have you considered the Golf R? You won’t get the same discount but with a strong RV it might lease similarly…I haven’t done the hw tho just speculation as Id probably purchase the R if anything.
To cut through the some of the BS that’s been brought up in this thread, are you absolutely set on the Arteon???
If yes, understand depreciation (any ICE with an RV in the 40% range is bad!). To get a “good” deal on this your discount needs to be much more than 12% (your current deal). The Arteon is the successor to the Volkswagen CC. Back in the day, VW was willing to discount them in the 20+% range. That was the ONLY way to make any lease stomach-able.
If no, leasing will NEVER be a nice number compared to an A5 SB. If sedans such as the A4, 3 series and C-Class are a consideration, they will likely be wildly cheaper.
Why not finance a CPO! Here’s a 2023 with low miles, and qualifies for a subvented interest rate:
https://www.lithiarenovw.com/certified/Volkswagen/2023-Volkswagen-Arteon-reno-nv-d50388de0a0e08345d414faa0a48cefb.htm
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