2021 Toyota Mirai for $17,995 with $15000 fuel card [ 0% financing purchase & no lease )

$18K is not but $10.5K is.

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Re CVAP, only three dealers that sell Mirais are on the approved CVAP dealers list: San Francisco Toyota, Toyota Sunnyvale and Toyota of Orange.

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Note that while it’s $15k of hydrogen fuel, that doesn’t mean it’s the equivalent of $15k worth of gasoline. Not sure what the ratio is, it really depends on the $/mile for a hydrogen with the Mirai and which vehicle it’s the equivalent of (Prius, Camry Hybrid, 530e without the battery charged, etc).

I read one review of the prior model Mirai that stated that the cost per mile was about 4 times as expensive as a regular Prius. Assuming the Prius gets 50 mpg, the Mirai equivalent would be 12.5 mpg.

Yeah I definitely wouldn’t want to be one of the early adopters for the Mirai. Tons of headache trying to manage the fill-ups and Hydrogen is extremely expensive+sparse. There’s no guarantee that these will ever have any re-sell value, so once that cash card runs out, you might be stuck with an expensive driveway ornament.

We have 2 clarity fuel cell (one approaching lease return, another one has 2 more years left), I am just sharing our humble opinion on H2 vehicles.

If I can conclude our H2 experience for the last 3 years in one simple term, it would definitely be “not yet”

We are about 5 miles away from Diamond Bar station, supposedly we should be consider the ideal H2 users , but in reality, it’s much more complicated.

Pros:

  1. You really get free gas , with some inconvenience (or unbearable for some, I will explain later)
  2. All Nexo, Clarity FCV, new or old gen Mirai are pretty much fully loaded top Trims from the corresponding brand., features like HUD , Leather Seat, Vent Seat(optional on some brand), 360 camera (nexo and Mirai top Trim), ACC , Premium Audio (Krell for Nexo, JBL for Mirai, Honda’s premium audio for Clarity)
  3. Very good dollar per mile ratio , especially for low incomers, you can get this FCV pretty much for free (CVAP + CVRP+ Heavy subsidized manufacture rebates)
  4. Really quiet and comfortable ride
  5. Zero emission on the road (however most of the H2 still produces based on natural gas)
  6. Clarity gives 20k miles per year , if you drives a lot (and don’t mind the waiting, anxiety and frustrations on H2 stations, it’s absolutely a deal breaker for some)
  7. HOV sticker and other EV related benefits
  8. 21 days free car rental (not your budget cars, but full size SUV like Ford Explorers)

Now lets get to the ugly parts of relying on H2 to be your primary transportation

  1. Station , station , station , station – if someone like me (5 miles away from the H2 station) is having this issue, please be extra cautious on this.
    a. stations will be down frequently (only question is for how long, DB station was down for almost 2 weeks due to power issues)
    b. Due to the high demand of H2 , you will NEVER fill your tank 100% (80 to 90 percent is the most common you will get)
    c. the wait time can be 40 mins to 1 hour long depends on the situation
    d. If you have range anxiety on EVs, try H2 …
    e. the H2 price keeps going up (not a big deal of a leased car, but for someone that’s going to own the car, it’s roughly 5x more the price than a Hybrid car)

  2. Fuel efficiency
    My Clarity is listed at 360 miles , but the absolutely maximum I’ve ever achieved was roughly around 260 miles , any elevation of climate change would simply kill the efficiency radically. If you are in colder area with lots of elevation , please think again (elevation + climate + tank will never be full) , you are look at minimum of 30% reeducation from your EPA estimates.

  3. Hidden cost

a. The maintenance is around $250 every 10k mile (Toyota and Hyundai gives first 3 years or 36000 maintenance for free) if you are buying them expect paying $250+ for future maintenance
b. Registration is around $1000 per year (not a joke, CA uses MSRP value to calculate your vehicle’s registration fees), most of the FCV are in the 50s or 60s range , you are going to pay for that amount.
c. Insurance premium is roughly 30 more than a similar equipped hybrid car (Clarity fuel cell costs more than my BMW M2 as a reference)

  1. Others
    Ultra slow performance (usually in the 8s to 9s in term of 0 - 60MPH), high probability of weeks (sometimes month long) repairs (our first FCV was sitting in shop for 2 months (waiting for parts to be shipped)

Consider Honda going to crush all the lease return FCVs (no plan for another fuel cell vehicles anytime soon) , I would say it’s a failed experiments for them as of today (Toyota is still in the game) .

We got our first FCV 3 years ago, for the first 12 month , it was actually a pretty good experience (that’s why we got the 2nd FCV 1 year later), things are going down hills from there (consistent station downs, ultra long wait time , range anxiety due to the unpredictability of H2 station…) we are regret to say getting 2nd H2 vehicle was a mistake for us so far :frowning:

in conclusion, if you don’t mind to have consistent wait or station downs (weeks in some occasions) and having all the time and patience in the world for you next re-fuels. FCV cars are probably the best you can get in term of Per mile costs. However, if you are somebody like myself who needs a reliable transportation for work (I’m an IT consultant, who travels all over the places) , simply get a EV or Hybrid . Lack of H2 will make your life miserable frequently (no jokes).

My 2 cents.

Jason

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Appreciate the write up - I’ve always been curious about FCV since I live down the street from a H2 station but I think I’ll stick with my current split of Tesla sedan and gas SUV!

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Basically describes my situation too. Except LEAF, Tiguan (also RSX Type S).

One would have to assume the re-sale value is $0 and then see if the TCO is worth it.

Agree, thanks for the write up. I live about 3 mi away from a fueling station and have a very short and predictable commute, so I was considering one in the future. Not due for a car in ~3 yrs or so, so we’ll see how far the technology progresses in that time…

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really appreciate the write up. my wife and I share 1 car due to her working from home full time and I only went into the office a few times a week before the plague. we were debating on a Mirai but will stay away from them for now!

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A post was merged into an existing topic: Off Topic Landfill 4

Cash in on the almost free Bolts!

Yes amazing deal. This however is excellent but a small car

I’ve thought about it but my condo complex does not have EV charging. I don’t want to deal with the hassle of public only chargers.

How/where do we get this deal . I am actually in the market for one

You can call any Toyota dealer who had this car and ask them if they do offer the 20k rebate

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Really appreciate your write up. I’m closed to DB station too and was thinking of FCV. Have to think again.

I just noticed this thread, and wanting to share our case in San Jose. We saw the 2021 Mirai deal on Wednesday, and picked up the car on Friday. We opted to finance and not lease since we are planning for 5-6 years on this car.

  1. Price breakdown: The car we got is XLE + advance tech package with MSRP 52.3k, negotiated 5k off MSRP. This comes to 47.3k + tax minus 20k Toyota rebate and took advantage of the 0% 72month finance offer. With both 8k Fed tax credit and 4.5k CA rebate accounted for, our out the door price is about $19.5k. In addition, we received the 15k fuel card for 6 years (purchase) and 21 free rental days within 3 year. The car comes with 3 years/35000 miles of ToyotaCare maintenance for free.

  2. Use case analysis: The car will be used mainly for work commute and occasional day trips to Napa or Big Sur, and we have a Tesla plus a gas car in the household. Also, there are 3 hydrogen stations within 5 miles with couple more in permit phase. The nearest station is <0.5 mile away and opening in two weeks with three H70 pumps and a 200+ kg H2 storage capacity, which the car will pass to and back from work everyday. The price per kg is set at $13.04. We did the math, if we kept the car for 6 years we would still have some amount left from the $15k averaging 10000 miles per year. The price of hydrogen are estimated to go down as well. That’s 6 years of free energy on driving and commuting, and California approved another 115 million into building hydrogen stations just last Dec.

  3. Infrastructure concerns: Yes, we read about the shortages and uncertainty of hydrogen vehicle’s future. Even if the car is worth little at the time we are looking to sell or trade in, we can always treat it as a nice lease on a Lexus with Toyota badge. The car is gorgeous with a nice interior and all the latest tech included. Our sales (leased couple Mirai) mentioned that Toyota seems to take care Mirai owners much better compared to Honda/Hyundai. There was a huge H2 shortage couple years back and Toyota covered 2-3 months of rental at their expense. Hopefully, the situation will improve overtime and shortage will be less often.

With all the above remarks considered and despite I’m being a bit optimistic, we decided to give it a shot into experiencing hydrogen transportation. Feel free to reach out for dealer information and let me know if you need a referral.

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I am also considering leasing a 2021 Mirai… Why? It is a great looking vehicle and Because the deals are so great that this car can be had for about $250/mo (after all CA incentives applied at the current lease prices from @Cody_Carter ) I think the prices will drop even more past the summer…so come September as low as $200/mo for XLE and $250 for Limited (of course max incentives applied for those prices) and a NO BRAINER FREE FUEL for 3 years-can’t beat that even if waiting in line for H2 happens…
If I decide to do it-will probably go for the Limited as $9.5K Rebate makes it so much cheaper and better equipped…

Now, as far as H2 fuel comes in play-you probably don’t want this to be your ONLY vehicle if stations go out of service nearby… My closest one is 15 miles away and it’s always online-never has any issues. Also, H2 has a tendency to be released from the tanks to relieve the pressure build up-so you may lose some if you don’t drive it as much. Keep in mind that you can only service these cars at the specific dealerships and not all dealers.

The full rebate for a low income CA is $7,000, if someone qualifies for the CVAP grant that’s another $5,000 (Yes CVAP applies to FC vehicles-as they are in essence an EV…it’s in their implementation manual that no one reads haha)
There is no price limit for FC cars for the CVRP rebate like on EV cars