Nah he/she posted this to troll Aronchi.
If given the choice between a $4xx Infiniti or a net positive profit on a 4xe, 392, TRX, Escalade, LT1 (should I keep going), it’s an easy decision every time.
I’d maybe start trying to get a higher trade in at a BMW dealer and see if there’s equity in the lease now and not wait. I’m doing that with my wife’s 330i we leased, rolling it into a purchase. You owe the taxes for the purchase which sucks but they will reimburse you on the unused taxes on the lease, albeit months later.
Do you actually have positive equity in that? One of the ways in which BMWs subsidized leases was to inflate the RV, and my vague memory is that most of the industry folks here have said that a 330i is unlikely to have any positive equity.
Depends how aggressive of a deal you got and how much you capitalized into the payment.
IME retail ready 3’s have been at least breaking even after a little over two years on lease generally, with 2020 M340i’s usually having a small amount of equity at least.
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I’m located in Michigan and am shopping for a midsized SUV. So far I’ve obtained lease quotes on a VW Tiguan, Jeep Grand Cherokee (EPP/Employee Chrysler Advantage Discount), Jeep Wranger, Ford Edge/Explorer, etc.
I’ve leased and purchased a lot of cars, in different situations, including European Delivery for BMWS, back in the good old days, with multiple security deposits etc.
Every single quote I’ve received is absurd. The MF is awful, no incentives and MSRP or a tiny discount.
I get it, manufacturers have pulled back all lease support, except for the odd case of a Wrangler 4xe with the tax break, etc…
I’m used to negotiating hard, but fair, and used to lease 3 series BMWs all day long for a song, waive acqs, buy rate MFs minus MSD discount etc.
Nowadays, zero negotiation, zero discussion, take it or leave it, from every single dealer I’ve contacted.
LaFontaine Imports; Golling CDJR; Bill Brown Ford, and on and on.
So…isn’t leasing dead right now? I mean, what’s the point? THe only “deals” I see are ultra low mileage, like 10k a year…
I see very few, if any, what I would call legitimate lease deals here…and most of the sales people are ignorant, don’t know or play dumb about MF, buy rates, waiving acq fees etc.
Who in their right mind would lease right now?
And why would automakers go back to the “old days” with full lots and huge discounts?
You’re gonna need a car, sooner or later, so if they can tolerate a bit less volume, they’re gonna hammer us on high prices/high profits forever.
Are there any reasonable lease deals to be had on a midsize SUV? (Frankly, I don’t think so, but I’d like someone to point out a midsize SUV lease for $450 or less a month 36/15k).
Or shall I just buy?
Thanks.
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None unfortunately.
Most start around $600
And one problem is you only contact Dealers, try some brokers here.
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The main benefit of leasing in the past was that manufacturers would subsidize lease residual values, so that the amount of actual depreciation incurred was greater than the sum of your lease payments.
This would often result in negative equity (unless you leased a Honda or something), and the only way to get out of a lease was to transfer it to somebody, provided you had a sufficiently compelling payment. But from a total cost of operation POV, it was cheaper to get a good lease deal. Less depreciation, and since the car at most would be three or so years old, less in maintenance and repairs.
Also in the past, with discounts and incentives factored into the mix, the small delta between net cap cost and residual value could result in really attractive low payments with a lease. Those discounts and incentives did not have as much of an impact on the monthly payment with conventional financing, as they’re amortized over a longer period.
Today, the conditions for leasing are less favorable. Lease payments are much closer to finance payments, and residuals are no longer inflated. That being said, there are still circumstances where it could make sense – subvented money factors, decent discounts with ordering, high residuals for certain models, etc. For some cars, it may still make sense to lease if depreciation is unknown or historically poor, and you’d rather have the captive lender take on the risk of depreciation.
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Even in the good old days I’ve personally never seen good leases on vw (ever) or fords. You almost need to have a price first and then see what models match it and not even be too picky about brand.
My local Nissan dealer I drove through the lot tonight. It’s barren save for a half dozen pickups (the only thing they can keep on the lot). Chevy same thing. Its lot has some unsellable bolts and some silverados and then a token other model. I don’t really blame them for demanding top dollar as their sales volume must be crap right now.
I’m personally surprised that with $5 gas there is not better pickup availability. I’d actually buy one right now (got a quote on selling our third car tonight) but no I’m not paying $40”/month for a titan with like $5k down lol
you hit the nail on the head. I’m seeing a brutal combination of the following factors:
- terrible MFs, i.e. not artificially low/subsidized anymore;
- no “free” cap cost reductions, like rebates, incentives or discounts from MSRP from standard negotiation (only exceptions being weird circumstances like $7,500 EV tax rebate);
- residual values are actually still high, although perhaps not technically subsidized, rather, high just due to the crazy market.
and yes, i’ve inquired thru several brokers here…their numbers weren’t “magically better”, and why would they be? The MFs are set, unless you’re going with a third party leasing company offering much lower MF (good luck finding one), the residuals are set, cap cost is set, and rebates/incentives simply don’t exist. Best I could get from a broker was $474 a month with $3,500 DAS on a Jeep Wrangler 4xe…yes, that’s a good deal…but the effective monthly is a lot more than $474. Plus, that is ordering only, so waiting a few minutes, and the MF and residual can’t be locked…so…yeah…risk there. And of course the Wrangler has a fantastic, high residual but the MF sucks balls, there are zero incentives and little selection.
I brag as much as the next guy about leasing deals, and I feel like a lot of people here are exaggerating the lease deals, or using one off examples like leasing loaners and stuff like that.
Fact of the matter is, that if you are paying $500ish a month for a $40k vehicle on a lease, why bother? You’re getting ripped. Makes a lot more sense to buy, finance at 3% and wind up with the same payment.
Otherwise, you’re out the transaction costs (acq fee, dispo fee) and any out of pocket cap cost reduction (you sure aren’t getting that from the manufacturer).
The only other thing you can do is get a really low mileage lease, which i’ve never understood. Why do people lease BMWs, Lexus, etc at 10k a year? That is literally a “trophy wife” that you can look at but really can’t drive much.
I am declaring that leasing is dead right now…from a financial perspective. I’ve seen very, very few “deals” here, or on Edmunds, Bimmerfest or anywhere else for that matter that are impressive.
I mean, when I’m getting a 6% interest rate/MF on a 2022 VW Tiguan lease, with an RV of 58% (yes, I have almost perfect credit and a six figure income)…that yields a payment of $500 a month, yes, $500 a month on a $33k SUV…i’m speechless.
there was even a recent thread here about the pounding some fella took leasing one of these. Why? Why? Why? Is VW/Audi serious? Comon.
And yeah, can’t buy that turd, it is literally the least reliable SUV known to man, and one more thing, its damn near 7 year old design. I use that as an example because it is so bad, for an older model, that nobody really wants…WTF?
I’m praying someone here proves me wrong, but honestly no way I can justify leasing at this point. Its a joke and a horribly bad financial decision for most people, unless you can write it off thru a business.
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You can get a Murano for under that amount if you go 18/10. 18/15, depends on what the RV bump is for that.
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I have never been able to utilize leasing in a more favorable way than I have recently.
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That said I would say you can count on your hands how many decent lease deals there are out there. Wrangler 4xe, even that is getting expensive. LEAF deal is pretty much dead. Frontier is still decent if you can avoid markups.
It’s called lease hacking for a reason, the system is actively working against you. And the system has gotten alot tighter, others have explained that well, but that doesn’t mean opportunities still don’t exist, they maybe just less obvious, or take more work to execute, then before.
As the market changes the hacking approach has to change. The idea of entering into a 36mo lease, keeping the car for the duration and then returning it, no longer makes sense. Most have switched to a much shorter period of ownership, getting in and out quickly, to capture positive equity on the resale of new vehicles into the secondary market.
In fact, if your objective to lease hacking was to generate equity while moving from vehicle to vehicle, and your not that picky on the vehicle, this is downright a golden age. If this is not an approach that interests you, I can understand the disappointment in the current market, but don’t worry, the only thing constant is more change.
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Both my leases are/were 10k. On the Tiguan we’re at 14.4k after 38 months. LEAF is at 10.7k miles about 18 months in. We bought out the Tiguan. Might do so with that LEAF if new ones are marked up by lease end.
Some people just drive less. Work from home, etc.
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yeah, I get the hacking to bail and sell on the secondary market. That’s fine, but doesn’t work for me. I need a vehicle to drive.
And both brokers here threatened to force me to sign a “no resale” agreement on a Wrangler 4xe, which is pretty heavy handed. I’m super busy at work, with kids sports, life in general, running a business etc.
I just don’t have the free time or energy to spend hours, days, weeks hunting down an elusive “lease deal” so I can flip it, or save a few bucks.
So, it seems everyone agrees, that leasing a vehicle to actually drive (not flip) is a poor financial decision right now…period.
I miss the good old days, I leased a loaded BMW 330, picked up on european delivery (heavy discount, program no longer exists), used multiple security deposits to reduce the buy MF rate, waive acq fee, high residual etc…DAS was less than $1k and it would lease all day long in the $400 range…low 400s, with 6% tax.
And here we are now.
I can’t wait until the recession hits, the weak get culled and the auto loans/leases start getting hammered…the default rate is already creeping up now…can’t wait until all these people are upside down in $60k finance/high leases for blinged out Jeep Grand Cherokees, etc…
Gonna be real fun when those go upside down, residuals tank and Chrysler Financial can’t give them away. They are unreliable garbage and there is NFW they gonna be worth inflated prices on the used car market.
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I agree with all your sentiments. Our XC90 leased in March of 2020 was $23k (including sales tax) total lease cost for a 36mo/15k. We recently got a quote for one at around $43k total lease cost for similar MSRP and terms.
Given this crappy leasing market and my detest for ADM proliferating the auto market, we went ahead and financed a Macan slightly below MSRP. I somehow convinced myself that this was a better value proposition, given the current crappy leasing environment. 
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If its a new body that’s a great deal, old body - honestly you can’t complain. It’ll hold it’s value decently well over the next 3 years.
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For most cars, but like I said, there are a handful of deals for those not flipping.
Got a halfway decent lease deal on a Murano through a broker from marketplace for my mother.
The Nissan deals are mostly built on super high RVs and thus de facto aren’t for flipping. Not to mention can’t really sell an NMAC lease anyway.
Got an S60 t8 for about $18500 total lease (36/12) in feb 21 
now they are non existent. My dealership has a nice xc90 t8 but the thing is $78k and I bet the lease is at least a grand a month!
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good, lively discussion. I thought I was missing something, but by and large this is the worst leasing environment I’ve ever seen in my 20 plus years of leasing.
As far as what to lease and what to buy, well, my strategy is there are some girls you have a fling with and other girls you marry.
VW/Audi, if you’re gonna buy, you’re in for an expensive out of warranty experience. Same with BMW, fun to lease, but brutal long term ownership costs especially out of warranty; ditto for Chrysler, they consistently have some of the worst reliability in the market…some of their older designs are reliable now…but still…if you had to pick a vehicle to get you across the most brutal desert conditions imaginable, would you pick a Jeep Wrangler with 100k miles or a Toyota 4Runner? (hahahah)
I typically will lease just about anything, reliability be damned, because its under warranty and I shift the risk on to the lessor. Buying, well, I try to stick with reliable brands.
I guess I am going to purchase, which is fine, I can get 2.79% for 60 months from a credit union, and pay $500 a month to own, or sell anytime I want, instead of paying $500 a month to lease a $33k VW product…
As far as my personal time, i’m a professional who bills by the hour in a specialized area, so I can bill at a much better rate than I can earning a profit flipping leased cars, so to maximize efficiency I need to focus on my day job, even though flipping cars would be more fun, and I’m jealous of those that can do it.
I wish things were better.
And they will be soon, see below. We need a nice recession, to bring inflation back down to earth, because housing and durable goods like cars are out of control. I’m very fortunate to be able to weather this storm right now, but the average joe can’t afford to get a new car any longer, and that’s a real shame.
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