teslas are going to get a wrap like mustangs crashing into crowds… except it’s walls.
pressing on the wrong pedal is not too rare. I have it happened to me on the receiving side. Some one drove his minivan into my previous town house, luckily I was at work. Not a fan of Tesla myself, but can’t blame them for everything
I had it explained to me. And by the way I am starting to see a LOT of Tesla model 3s at my workplace, Google. Tesla is not just a car company. They are the #1 battery company in the world. They are the #1 EV company in the world. They are the #1 powerwall company in the world. They are the #1 electric-fuel filling-station company in the world. Is the company worth what its market cap says its worth? Maybe yes. Do they have everything it takes to make Elon’s vision of the future come true? Maybe yes. Was the model S a breakthrough? Yes. It is the first car ever to exceed 100 on the consumer reports testing scale, forcing them to recalibrate their opinion of what a car can be! Is the model 3 a breakthrough design, with crappy production but it doesn’t matter? Hell yes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpCrkO1x-Qo By many calculations the 5-year TCO of a $35k tesla - when it arrives - is THE LOWEST OF ANY MAJOR CAR IN THE NATION (including #1 Honda Civic - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR_ub5eL9n0). Are the asian car companies crapping their pants? YES.
I leave you with something to ponder : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UjWqQPWmsY
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But wait a minutes, let’s get some real facts and put thing into context
[quote=“D_Gillies, post:408, topic:38637, full:true”]
I had it explained to me. And by the way I am starting to see a LOT of Tesla model 3s at my workplace, Google. [/quote]
Can you disclose how much incentive Google is giving to their employee for buying electric car,specifically Model 3? Without that, I think a good portion will buy ICE or another brand of electric.
[quote=“D_Gillies, post:408, topic:38637, full:true”]
They are the #1 battery company in the world. [/quote]
Not really, all the li-on battery knowledge/IPs were from Pansonic. Tesla is the #1 battery packing company. The truth is Tesla did a hell of job pushing li-on cell volume into public usage. But they didn’t know how to make it.
This, I don’t disagree.
This is totally bull. First, I don’t think any of the Modle 3 at google is $35K. Most are in $50K range. Then eve at $35K, it is $15K more than a Honda civic at the same interior quality and comfort. The Civic owner has $15K to spend before even match Model3’s selling price. It is 10 years of gas for most people in a Civic. And we don’t know how expansive or cheap to maintain a Tesla. All I know is if something break, you have no choice but to take it into Tesla. If you car is out of warranty, no other place can service it. In fact, Tesla doesn’t even disclose the car’s service history to anyone. Sure things may change as Model 3 gets popular. If that happens, I will have a change of opinion on this.
At this moment, I highly doubt for the Japanese big 3.
There is free charging at Google, like at several employers nationwide. The parking lot is filled with (in decreasing order) Nissan Leafs, Tesla Model S, Chevy Bolt, Chevy Volt, Tesla Model X, and a much smaller number of : BMW i3, Volkswagon eGolf, and Ford Fusion Energi(mine), and Tesla Model 3s, and maybe 1 or 2 BMW 330e’s. See the TCO video I added to my original message : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR_ub5eL9n0 .
I watched that, but I think there are too many assumptions biased toward Telsa. 1) we don’t know how expansive it is to maintain a Tesla especially out of warranty. 2) if model 3 is intended for mass market, owners will not be tolerate Model S/X type of glitches. If Model 3 turns out to be a very reliable & low maintenance like Honda Civic, then resale value will be high. If this assumption doesn’t stand, its resale value can also down the drain as well.
Compare to BWM 3 series, which has similar price to Model 3, Model 3 will most likely to have lower TCO due to fuel cost saving. But so as a Honda or Toyota compare to BMW3. Lower TCO by itself has very little meaning, just like comparing Luxury Westin Hotel to Motel 6.
As for the Civic comparison, I am not so sure he get the 5 year old 2nd hand civic market price right. If you search for 2013 Civic with say 60K mile, they are all around $10-$11K. Keep in mind 2013 Civic has MSPR range from $11k-$16K. Most people get some discount off that. So the TCO for civic is a lot lower than what this video is suggesting.
And last, think about who made this video. Tesla enthusiast, who else? I am not trying to say Tesla is necessary a bad car, but I really don’t see they are off the top great at the moment. If things changes in a few years, my opinion may change too.
Finally on the cost of charging. Google offers free charging at work. I don’t know what percent of company does that. I know some don’t offer at all. Some cities like Palo Alto has very expansive charging rate public charging station. Cities like Santa Clara has very inexpensive charging rate. So the cost of operation vary a lot depending on the places around you too. I should be able to check out an EV this weekend, I will spend a bit money on testing charging cost at nearby charging station. It will be a fun piece of data.
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For 20 years honda ciivic has been #1 in terms of cost-to-own + fun-to-drive (ps it was my first car,a 1985 sedan). It looks like tesla might be the first company in 20 years to give it stiff competition in BOTH dimensions (p.s. toyota could never compete in the 2nd dimension).
Are you forgetting Honda Civic runs on a 1.5L motor, making 200HP or something? My RAV4 EV can probably outdrag a non SI Civic. Why not just compare it to a Prius, they both have wheels and seats.
The cheapest cars to own are the Volts/Cruze/Buick Encore GM are spitting out. $150 per month, you can’t beat that.
Point taken, but that’s not an entirely true statement. You’re referring to lease deals recently made, which wouldn’t be owned, and a purchase price would be higher. With that said, TCO would still be less than a Tesla in 5 years since you still can’t get the base model yet.
Looks like BK is averted and phoenix is rising from ashes.
According to Bloomberg’s Tesla Model 3 tracker, at the time of this writing, the automaker is cranking out over 2,500 copies a week and has eclipsed the 20,000 mark. Of course, naysayers will continue to report that this is well below “original” targets, as well as targets that were adjusted on at least two other occasions.
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Until a profit is turned, I’m not sure how building more cars averts BK.
Building more cars is a necessary but not sufficient step to profitability?
Not if you don’t know the expenses behind building that car, along with the profit margin of the car being built. Can it be profitable…yes. Does building more of an item guarantee profitability…no.
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Basic economics? Car industry has fixed high capital costs and lower variable costs. Therefore the first is offset by producing and selling as much as possible? Of course, assuming positive operating margins. If you are underwater on operating/marginal costs per unit, then obviously nothing can save you.
We are going to give Elon enough credit that he is obviously not that stupid and can read a P&L?
Disclaimer: neither an economist nor an accountant but I stayed at Holiday Inn express … once
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I will say I am not an economic major either. With that said, his goal of producing more cars will require more people since his full automation plan didn’t pan out like he expected. That means, MORE cars will be needed to be profitable than originally planned to pay for those extra bodies.
What is he making per 50k car? I’m assuming there is a net positive in these cars vs the 35k cars he shelved for the time being or they would be available as well. What are his fixed costs currently? What are those variable costs? How much more expenditure will be needed to make the additional cars he wants to produce?
Musk has promised 900 things that haven’t come true. But we should take him at his word this time? I’m not saying he CAN’T make a profit. I’m saying just because he’s producing more doesn’t make that a guarantee either without knowing existing liabilities/expenditures/costs.
Musk is a true genius. Will he go the way of the original Tesla - i.e. mad and broke? Possible. All I am saying is right now, he is in better shape than 2-3 weeks ago. 3 weeks ago, he was trending closer to Ponzi than Tesla.
I think fun can mean differently to different people. Drag people will love horse power and love Tesla’ dead stop acceleration. AutoX people will like a light weight,agile, high rev engine car like mini or S2000. Track people will like something handle well at higher speed and more mid range pickup.
Myself much prefer a lower power car that I can drive it fast because I do it right, than a fast car that I can’t use 10% of its capability. Cars like Miata, are ton of fun to drive at track. A boring car at track will be one of the AMGs, super fast but all you do is to keep your foot on the gas paddle, the car will do everything for you. Different people prefer different things.
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I go throw my car around the autoX course near me with my Brother-in-law when I have the time. There’s a guy up there that shoe horned a Northstar into a Miata. This thing looks and sounds like a rocket.
I don’t think any 35k new car can be qualify as cheap to own. Car are money pit, you should never view it as an asset.
Instead of focusing on the P&L, look at the cash flow statement. They nearly broke even from operations (see FY17 audited financials). If they control their spending, they will be just fine. I don’t think their stocks are worth as much as they are, but they are not as bad as people like to put it. As with everything else, the truth is probably somewhere in between.
Understood, but Civic compare to a Model 3? You have to do better than that, people are not likely to cross shop between the two