No, it’s not. It’s the result of a 30 second search because you explicitly called me out. I just used the “search button”, typed “hostage”. Being taken out of context, is part of the point. I’m not making blanket statements, and I’m definitely NOT making an attempt to discount good content while making my claim that some percentage of the content sets a tone for hostility and back and forward.
Remember the 1% rule of the Internet. You have a ton of people that are reading and acting on the information they see here, but not actively contributing back to the community. From the broker side, I see the world of people that read hours and hours of content here, but never post a thing. Something like your post from years ago will still be taken out of context today by someone that’s “done their research and here to make a deal”.
YOU may be responsible with your alt account use, but trust me when I say someone else will read that advice and shotgun emails to 50 dealerships, from 50 distinct accounts, because they’re paranoid all 50 dealerships are somehow in cahoots against them.
I’m not going to go through and “flag” every “bad” post just for it to be deleted years later. No point in that. I’m not looking for a “smoking gun”.
I still think it was worth having the discussion today to raise awareness around a conscious effort to ditch the Snark factor and make this site more serious. Increase volume, decrease BS. That’s it.
Yes, after you called trusted and LH out with the quotes that I posted above - let’s not gaslight.
If dumb people want to do dumb things by taking posts out of context like you have just done, there’s no stopping that. They’re going to do dumb things regardless.
Acting like LH is reddit and that we’re actively encouraging the types of behavior that you have described is totally out of context and totally false IMHO.
What is the actual solution to the problem that you believe exists?
The actual solution is extremely, extremely simple in premise.
On the Customer side: Only do business with dealers/brokers that give you accurate pricing information. Don’t reward bad dealers. If you get a price, and the price changes, don’t you dare take that new, higher price. This goes for credit tiers, trade-ins, backend products, and the usual set of “gotchas”. But also, don’t nibble. Shop competing quotes, but don’t use anything other than a competing quote as your “leverage”
On the Dealer side: Quote prices accurately and completely when asked, via whatever medium. If the customer has to Come Into the Showroom to get a price, or because their “credit app is pending” you’re doing it wrong.
On the Broker side: Advertise everything. The more customers that can shop you without having to engage you, seeing the complete pricing on your website/post/spreadsheet, the better.
On the hobbyist/forum contributor side: Always encourage Customers to get Multiple Quotes before giving further advice.
If everyone does their part, the hostility will go away and the bad dealers will go bankrupt. And, actually, many Brokers will go away too. Brokers only exist because the Customers/Dealers can’t get along well enough to get their parts right. If everyone on the Dealer/Customer side cleans up their act and deals in the most professional light, I will completely go under and there will be no need for me, a bottom-feeding broker.
There’s only a place for me in the market because customers and dealers haven’t been able to find a way to get along on their own. This site can change that.
I agree with @mllcb42 that the relationship is inherently adversarial but that does not mean it can’t be civil.
Being armed with intel on the target can help you get what you want without ending in a fight with a dealer. The right dealer may be happy to sell you the car and make a reasonable profit for very little time invested.
I understand there are nightmare customers for dealers and for brokers, but I am seeing a prevalent theme of customer bashing around this site among brokers.
I am in a service based industry, and while individual customers may not always be right and be nightmares to deal with, I still provide the best service I can. I privately vent to colleagues, but I would never publicly shame individual or groups of clients/customers in a forum that said customers could easily read. This only serves to aggravate the already contentious relationship buyers and sellers (dealers and brokers) have.
I think this is changing too, because of the Internet.
Any Dealership customer can go on Reddit - Dive into anything and publicly read car sales professionals shitting on customers. Any Starbucks or Wal-Mart customer can go on http://notalwaysright.com and read about Baristas shitting on customers.
There was a time where Customers could come here, and shit on Car Dealers, before they created their own presence on the site and started defending themselves.
I actually agree with you, I make every effort to not be rude or disrespectful, but yes, there is a “butt of the joke” in a lot of these published horror stories, and people don’t deserve to be personally offended. We need to make every effort to be polite, especially when posting horror stories about bad IRL interactions for the world to see.
Bottom line is, the information is out there for a hyper-informed customer to read ramblings and venting from industry professionals, and that customer can use that information to present themselves as a Best-Case Customer if they so choose.
To use not-the-best-example, Chris' fake email for low-balling. One person may read that post and say "good idea, I should also register a Hotmail address to get dealer quotes on". Then another person may comment and say "Hey, I work at a dealer and it's super annoying when people do this. My boss makes me literally dial the fake number 12 times a day even though I know it's a fake. I wish people wouldn't do this".
Then it’s up to the reader of both posts to decide what to do. They have the perspective of what works, but they also have the perspective of someone that may take offense to the tactic. Then it’s up to the Reader to decide what to do, having clearly seen both perspectives.
Yes, that’s what happened. In June 2020 when you joined, LH was just full of people shitting on car dealers and nobody said a word. But now - thanks to you - we can have the perfect utopia of cheap Hyundais as described above in your end world hunger essay that indicates to me that you have little to no understanding of how the human psyche or for-profit business actually work.
Yes, I totally agree. It’s all about acting respectful and polite. What say you, @AA-NJ?
I don’t think he’s using the fake email thing to pose as a fake customer to be an annoyance.
I use an alternate email to my primary because once I make an inquiry about a vehicle, I will get daily emails until I unsubscribe. I read the emails and will respond in a professional and timely manner to any emails that aren’t bot emails.
It is, but that doesn’t mean you should roll over for people that try to gut you. It turns out, despite my best intentions, a lot of people are actually looking for a fight. For that customer, I give them exactly what they ask for.
For a brief second I thought, “oh no, someone on LeaseHackr might be offended by my comment, people might not want to use a Broker that dropped a F-bomb”, but then, I realized the LH crowd might just actually appreciate a broker that shoots straight.
Yup. This is Sponsored Content; Thank you for Reading! I pay good money to Leasehackr to get your attention. So hopefully you find this discussion more thought-provoking than a banner ad or a Wacky Waving Tube Guy. Thanks to all those that humored me and joined in today!
Conspiracy: This whole site is funded because of people that wanna sell you a car, They’ve gotta pay their hosting bill somehow.
Bonus Question! Which is better: websites funded by Google & Facebook ads tracking your every move, or a website funded by evil potty-mouthed car brokers and dealers?
These all seem like things that are pretty much done here. Consumers are told to research their deals with multiple comps, any dealer that bait and switches is ostracized, and the dealers and brokers that stick around here seem to be the ones that figure out that transparency is key.
So while that is all good advice for the general market, how does that apply to our little corner of the internet?
This is Tesla’s model, and it works. The same person who will go back and forth on a negotiating a deal with BMW/Porsche/Mercedes has no problem buying a Tesla for the price they ask online.
Here is a different approach: Could it be the consumer has a fear that somebody else got a better deal? Consumer A walks into their local Volvo dealer and leases a loaner S60 for $350 a month. All is good except for when Consumer B negotiates the same car for $300 a month. Now Consumer A thinks he got ripped off because Consumer B did better, thus creating the generalization that dealers are crooks.
On the other hand, Consumer C buys a Tesla Model Y. Consumer D also buys a Tesla Model Y, but knows Consumer C got the same price on their car, so all is good.
I guess @HondaSoCal’s system would also work if everybody sold Civic Sports at MSRP with him.
