Me catching up on this thread right now 
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i just did the same but the reaction was a bit different
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They won because they were acting as an unlicensed insurer, not because they charged for etching.
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Sigh, 1.5 Million = 1/2 to Lawyers , $10k to person who started it, and roughly 55% to everyone who signed up.
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They can charge whatever they want, but should be required to include all ADM, Add-ons, fees, etc that are not TTL in the advertised price on all medium. No advertising MRSP- a combination on incentives its literally impossible to qualify for then hitting you with a couple grand when you try to close. Charge what you want, just be honest about it.
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Loophole: laws against ADM can be skirted by calling them blessings.
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Couple points here:
If this could be a law, it already would have especially in a pro consumer state like Cali. The issue that all of these consumer laws have is that they must contend to go around the interests of the dealer lobby. Those pockets and esq run deep then those of the “ADMS are bad” collective.
Now in a hypothetical situation, where the above barrier does not exist, yes this is a great idea for now, but what about later when the market normalizes or experiences weakness? Why would dealers and mfgs sell for less then msrp when they are guaranteed a MSP?
Two ways of thinking on this, either let the market run its course in the hopes it corrects, or think of a law/process that accommodates for human behavior, especially those whose pockets and need for instant gratification run far deeper then their need to be “Fair market for all”.
I can see it now. “Sir, the GT5 RS ClubSport Rennlist Turbo S E Hybrid Spyder is a really hot car right now so we have a market adjustment of 150,000 blessings”.
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ADM would just be supplanted by some other profit mechanism like prerequisite to buy a less desirable car and trading it in on the car the buyer actually wants (at a loss, obviously)
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Agreed!
Look at how CA just announced a $175 million fine on Smart & Final for increasing prices during the pandemic.
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/california/smart-final-to-pay-175k-for-egg-price-gouging-in-pandemic/2855759/
And this about fuel price price gouging:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-u-s-consumers-suspect-gas-price-gouging-and-how-much-stations-actually-profit-from-a-gallon-of-the-fuel-11649161152
We should contact our state attorney general and let them know how badly some dealers have taken advantage of consumers!
Price gouging has very specific legal terms and generally applies to very specific categories of products. A luxury purchase like a brand new car isnt one of them.
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I’m not necessarily a supporter of ADM, nor will I pay it… but that doesn’t mean that it should be illegal. Dealers have every right to charge as they please, IMO, just as customers have every right to give business to the dealer of choice.
The fact of the matter is, there will always be customers willing to pay for ADM. Why would it NOT exist?
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ADMs are predatory IMO when a dealer is not clear and consistent about it. If an ADM is clearly stated and everyone truly pays that same ADM then I think it’s OK. But, if for example a dealer puts a $10k ADM on the monroney but then is actually selling that car at $3k ADM to one customer and $7k to another customer, then you have a situation where the dealer is basically trying to squeeze maximum value from each customer after assessing their ability and willingness to pay. That, to me, is wrong. I’m not sure if it should be illegal, but it strikes me as short-term thinking. It will build customer distrust if (1) they find out someone else bought the same car for less ADM and/or (2) when they go to sell the car a few years from now and find out they’re horribly underwater. Dealers are hammering in the last nail in their coffin.
Tesla on the other hand has been essentially adding an ADM to its cars for the past several months. But baking it into the official msrp of the car. So it’s clear and consistent. Everyone pays the same increased price. So #1 doesn’t happen and since the official price is increased, residuals will increase to reflect this. Hence #2 is unlikely to happen. As a result, while yes it hurts a bit for the consumer to pay the higher price, you do not harvest long-term distrust.
Didn’t know they had dealers in upstate NY. Assume that’s the same as the Kia Cape Coral. I believe the guy in the commercials passed a year or two ago.
I always chuckled when I see a car with Fuccilo on the license plate. I can’t believe anyone would drive around with that. Even Off Lease Only or Florida Fine Cars VP would be better…
Don’t car dealers always try to squeeze every dollar they can out of every customer on a daily basis?
Let’s say two separate people were to buy two Cars in 2019. Both have a $50k MSRP
Person A goes onto leasehackr and does their homework and gets 10% off.
Person B walks right into dealer and pays full MSRP.
Is that fair?
Personally, I’ve never met a salesmen who offered everyone the lowest pricing to every customer right away.
I hate ADM and I refuse to pay them, but they exist because the market allows them to. Some dealers offer MSRP or less if a car is ordered. Same dealer adds mark up on the cars on the lot. If you need a car now, you’re either going to pay or someone else will. I don’t know how something can be illegal if the “S” in MSRP stands for “suggested”. Like others have said above, if you mark up milk, eggs, bread, water that’s unacceptable. A new car is not essential for most people.
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What you have described, can explain the selling process of many (various) products. None of that is anything new. Dealers historically have presented MANY reasons as to why they shouldn’t be trusted, ADM is just one skittle from the bag.
In the example of selling to Customer A at the $3K ADM, then selling to Customer B at a $10k ADM… again, that is no different than the general selling of any type of product of service. Purchasing a real estate property, selling your Rolex, negotiating a lawn maintenance contract… these all have a similar general basis behind them.
Or lets remove ADM from the equation entirely. A dealer a selling two Cayenne’s at full MSRP, say $100k. He completes the sale with Customer A at the full MSRP. The wiser Customer B walks in for the second and ends up paying $92K. Would that be considered predatory as well, simply because the customer cannot/won’t negotiate?
We can twist the stories & situations as we please, but it comes down to two very simple things. Educate yourself and do the necessary legwork. This means know what you are buying, formulate what your deal should look like, and review the damn paperwork before signing.
Yea good points. Fair enough. The fact of the matter though is that most consumers don’t have the skill or will to “educate yourself and do the necessary legwork”. In most countries in the world it’s caveat emptor. But in the US we have myriads of consumer protection laws, that most US consumers depend on (whether they realize it or not) to not end up in a bad place. You can definitely argue that US should be more caveat emptor – and I don’t necessarily disagree – but the fact is that we’re not.
Id rather see someone make a truth in advertising law than an anti-adm law. If a dealer wants to charge an adm, let the market decide if its reasonable or not. What i hate are people that say “no adm, selling at msrp! But you have to pay $995 for an alarm on a vehicle that already has one”
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It ain’t a blessing if you had to pay for it.
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