Wholesale on a used 2023 is still over MSRP.
And comparing a RR to a Hyundai is not exactly comparing apples to apples. When your local dealer has an average of 1 new Rover in their inventory at any given moment, you can be assured that the supply/demand curve is not going to flip any time soon regardless of an economic crash.
and this of course only matters to the less than 1% of buyers who actually want a Range rover vs anything else. And used 2023? How about we look at used 2018 to 2020 or anything like that?
Manufacturers can artificially keep prices high onlyfor so long with lack of inventoryâŚbut Range rover sure as hell not Ferarri.
My point about Hyundai is that dealers can ask for anything they want⌠PS⌠at certain points it was tougher to get a Pallisade or a Kia Telluride and people were paying $20k or more over sticker for one. Some were still asking and getting those, while other dealers got sticker and they are now at a discount.
And donât you recall 2008 financial crisis?
Just wait till more and more of the bankers and hedge fund managers who bought Range Rovers get fired. Layoffs in those sectors are just starting to happen and while the auto market has certainly popped, it is still extremely elevated and has a long way to go⌠and this is just from the lack of covid prices and high interest ratesâŚ
Next add in the crash that happens as overall economy crashes and people have to make the choice between putting food on the table versus a car.
I am in finance and all the red flags and warning alarms are going off⌠Go watch some of the automotivechannels on YouTube from wholesalers and dealers and see what they are seeing and saying. Lucky Lopez, car questions answered, and others.
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Well for starters, you know who an economic crash will affect the least? The same 1% of buyers who are shopping for a Range Rover.
If there are no new ones available, and the 2023 models are going for over MSRP, what do you think happens to the values of the 2018-2020 models?
Red flags about the economy or not, your initial point:
is false. They are, in fact, on track to be among the last to lose value if and when that happens.
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Are you not plugging in your 4xe? If not, 22 MPG is almost exactly the EPA rating. You would save a lot by plugging it in. Thatâs how itâs meant to be used.
I would hope that some of these hedge fund managers making 7 figures wouldnât be stressing about their Range Rovers, should the economy start to take a turn for the worse.
Disclaimer: I am not in finance but I have friends in that industry.
RR isnât what they were back in the day. Iâve had my velar now for 50k miles and have not had a single problem
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Velar/Evoque and the like are hardly worthy of the RR badge nor a representation of how (un)reliable the real ones (full size and sport) are.
You had me up until when your reliable data sources included Lucky Lopez and the Youtubes.
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@mllcb42 Why are you unhappy with your GC 4xe?
He isnât sure why he is unhappy with it yet, but itâs coming.
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Agreed, the 4xe is much nicer if it can be plugged in on a daily basis and driven less than 25 miles a day. I have no issues when the 4xe is driven primarily on electric power. It is very nice. I just donât like it nearly as much when the battery is discharged and having to rely primarily on the gas engine. Step on the gas when the battery is discharged and the 4 cylinder engine strains mightily to move the 2.5 tons. Not ideal for a $60K+ vehicle, but I guess that is the nature of these PHEVs.
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I donât see much difference between All-electric range and Hybrid range. In Hybrid mode, I can drive about 25 miles before the battery is depleted. I have never tried all-electric mode, but I imagine it is the same. Last night I charged the vehicle to about 90%. This morning I drove about 22 miles in hybrid mode. The battery was down to 1% by the time I arrived at my destination. For the trip home of about 60 miles it was primarily all gas engine. MPG on the way home was about 22-25mpg. I donât see how hybrid mode with a discharged battery is really doing anything different than simply running the gas engine all the time.
Itâll certainly run the engine most of the time once the plug in power is defeated, but not while stopped, going downhill, or much of the time in stop-and-go, or going slow speeds. Just like a normal hybrid. Itâs definitely a heavy vehicle not built for efficiency, explaining why my Pacifica PHEV easily goes 30 miles all-electric and then gets 32 MPG on gas with much the same basic components.
It is really unfortunate you do not understand how your vehicle works and keep stating false facts about the 4xe. The battery is NEVER fully discharged only all electric driving range.
Everyone reading these comments do yourself a favor either read Jeeps literature or go to the dealership and talk to a 4xe tech. Or better yet drive the vehicle in depleted state.
This guy really thinks the jeep loses all of its towing torque and hp when the plug in range is depleted???
You have got to be kidding me.
I didnât say it loses ALL its towing torque and hp when the plug in range is depleted. My experience is that it loses some of its capability when the battery is depleted because it relies more on the gas engine. The power has to come from the battery, the engine or some combination of both. When the battery is depleted, it relies primarily on the engine for power. This information is displayed in numerous formats in the various displays. You believe the battery magically stays charged without any loss in performance. According to you, when the display says the battery is depleted there is still 15% held in reserve. How does the system keep that 15% reserve when not plugged in? It uses the engine to charge the battery. The engine power used to charge the battery is not available to move the vehicle, hence a loss in performance. It is a simple energy balance equation.
According to Jeepâs literature âthe batteries in the 4xe store electricity for two purposes. The majority of the battery capacity is for 100% electric operation. The remaining capacity is held in reserve to allow the gas engine to start and provide power to accessories.â Hence, the 15% reserve is not used to power the vehicle in electric operation. âThe second electric motor is a 100-kW unit, good for 134 horsepower, and is mounted within the transmission replacing the torque converter. It also can also apply power to the driveline and is the motor primarily responsible when the vehicle operates in pure electric mode.â But the 15% held in reserve is not used for 100% electric operation per Jeepâs own literature.
No loss in performance. You do not know what you are talking about or how a hybrid works. And its not according to me it is according to Jeep and Chrysler.
15% of storage is allocated towards this. You had another poster explain this to you but you are too hard headed to accept this. Read the above quote.
There is no loss in torques or power as the electric motors act as a torque fill when needed. You are making yourself look like a really ill informed consumer here. Take the time and talk to an educated Jeep representative.
Your energy balance equation as you call it is explained below.
**4XE will not have an alternator. Instead, it has a DC to DC converter between the high voltage battery and the 12 volt system. Thatâs where your 12 volt power comes from. Other than that, youâll have the same capability as any other Cherokee/Wrangler. The converter is rated at 2500 watts so itâs capable.
As far as performance goes, it pretty much works the same. The more electrical power we pull, the more the system will have to work to keep that 12 volt system charged. Keep in mind, the system works to keep the high voltage battery at about 15% when in hybrid mode. Many people think the high voltage battery will run down and the 4XE just becomes a gas vehicle at that point. But it will do what it has to do to keep the big battery around 15% for the sake of power when itâs needed and for the sake of keeping the 12 volt system powered.**
the GC 4xe operates as hybrid once the battery nears its minimum state of charge.
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correct the 15% is not used for electric power it is maintained for torque fill and power. both electric motors are powered when needed for acceleration and torque even at 0% just like prius. They aid the gas engine always present when needed just like a normal hybrid.
You can go back and forth all you want but it wont change the reality of how the system works The electric motors are there for torque fill and extra hp in concert with the engine.
You are on another thread saying a regular Jeep GC drives better than a 4xe. People think you are nuts for even stating that.
If you donât like your vehicle then turn it in and quit pissing and moaning on this forum about how you think it sucks.
The fact that you think a vehicle designed for towing boats and offroading does not use the full power electric motors for torque fill and hp when needed once the all electric range is depleted is absolutely ridiculous.
The origin of the complaint might be that the 4xe is weird to drive compared to what the personâs used to when in hybrid mode because engine noise doesnât really correspond to what youâre doing, especially at low speeds, and driving in pure electric is so smooth and straightforward. I know my Pacifica PHEV is much less pleasant to use once the plug in power is run down. But compared to a fully ICE Pacifica, itâs still way better.
Thatâs not how this works. It provides power from that reserve for acceleration, and the recharges if needed during cruising from the engine or during any decel using the regenerative braking system. Unless youâre doing prolonged high throttle runs up a hill towing, youâre never dropping the battery low enough that you stop getting electric motor assist on acceleration. Is it possible to? Absolutely, in very niche circumstances. Does it ever happen in normal driving? No.
Youâre correct that the 15% reserve is not used to power the vehicle in electric only operation. When you hit the <1% output so youâre in the reserve 15%, it will not allow you to drive in electric only, but it still uses that power for acceleration assist.
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