I get that brokers do more work and deal with lots of questions and potential customers that go nowhere. I also get that brokers are guaranteeing a deal whereas I and others would only provide a dealership name for people to try to negotiate their own deal.
So to sum up, the suggestion is: For members who did not use a broker, to feel free include the dealer name when posting to the “share a deal” section.
Any thoughts?
Most dealers don’t want you name dropping to be honest. If someone were to PM you asking, I’m sure you could tell them, but theres a reason you don’t see a lot of dealer names, even in the Share a Deal section.
I’m going to tell you why you don’t see a lot of dealer names shared here:
Noobs will flood that dealer with uneducated requests asking for $350/mo 3 series loaners, not knowing anything about the incentives, or the residual, and it will be a year after you posted and someone will email them asking to match the deal and they will literally hate you for posting their name.
I get that, but I don’t have an agreement with the dealer not to share their name or their deal. In the interest of getting consumers the best deals, can or should this practice change?
I get that this would be a major change from the status quo.
In what other consumer centric industries are deals like this so secretive? I’d be open to dealers compensating customers to keep their deals confidential. I think this would make sense, from a free market perspective to continue the status quo.
For me it gets to the mission of the site. Is it solely focused on helping customers hack deals, or is it also focused to help dealers and brokers make money? There is a trade off to account for.
I’m not saying this is the only solution, but paying $400 + for a price also seems pretty bad.
It hurts the community.
A lot of people read this forum.
If everyone started naming dealers, they’d all get flooded with calls from people who want sub $400 BMWs and we would be screwed.
Don’t underestimate how many people would see this stuff.
Getting back to the original topic on this thread, I completely agree with the premise. It is consumer unfriendly to have to do a bunch of math to back out all non-applicable incentives out of a deal. I am fine if a broker wants to say in a post $300 per month with loyalty $250 with loyalty and costco, and shows the work, but as a person on the lurking/shopping end trying to get a sense of what the market is for certain cars, the amount of funny math done on incentives makes it nearly impossible. It is a very frustrating feature/outgrowth of this site. I like looking at broker’s spreadsheets, but even those often have hidden incentives that are buried in headings or in asterisks and it is not particularly clear. Standardizing this process, just as the site has for say private transaction listings, would go a long way to making it more user friendly. From what i have seen @nyclife does a nice job at being very transparent in how he lists prices in both his posts and on his spreadsheets. I appreciate that style and wish others would do the same.
This is all interesting feedback to read.
As I’ve read through all of the comments, I’d like to resurface something that I’ve mentioned before a few times on the forum.
A broker in general, is only worth their fee, if they provide a valuable service to those who hire them and pay them. For some, the service is not worth it. I always use the analogy of paying someone to rake my leaves. Sure, I could do it. Do I hate it? Yes. Would I rather sip coffee in my sweats and pay someone $400 to do it? 100%
There is nothing magical about what brokers do, that a non-broker couldn’t do on their own as far as price goes.
Brokers, for the most part, can deliver a very competitive price, in a convenient and efficient manner. For many people, they pay brokers because of the amount of time and energy it may take to find a similar deal on their own (raking their own leaves). And, a lot of people really like to know they have an advocate on their side when working with a dealership. Not everyone hires a broker for price alone. Many people go in to the conversation with a budget, and learn what is possible through working with a broker who serves multiple brands and tracks/trends the “flavor of the month.”
Brokers are a valuable resource to the forum not only because of the monetary based services they provide to those who seek them. I believe brokers demonstrate what deal highlights exist in a given month, what may be possible, and this is all data that is really great for folks who like to do the shopping on their own as well as customers. I’m not saying this because I’m a broker. I’m saying it because I see broker deals posted that maybe I didn’t consider for the month, and it gives me the ability to bring more of these deals to the community but in a different region…
Brokers, at least the good ones, earn their fees by doing more than just getting a good price. It’s a combination of pricing, convenience, advocacy, access, and consultation.
They stay up to date on pricing, availability, programs, can encourage swaps, etc…
Perfect example…first day of every month what happens? People flock to Dan’s BMW thread and ask, “what’s new for the month”?
At this point I’m rambling. To summarize, like with anything, if brokers provide a service worth the money, they will drive business. If not, they won’t have any business. For some, it’s a real value. For others, they enjoy consuming the data on the forum and going about the journey on their own, and feeling a great sense of accomplishment in landing that killer deal.
my grammar is terrible and I didn’t proof read
This is good, and I agree that brokers definitely can be worth the $400+.
I had a friend use a broker though once and was just forwarded a credit application. He just wanted the price, and that’s all he got.
I simply want to break this tradition of not sharing dealer names, which I personally uphold currently because everyone else seems to do it.
If you go to the homepage, there are 3 skill level categories of users mentioned. I’m trying to help 2 and 3, while brokers are meant to help 1.
See that’s where your wrong…2-3 are already doing what you think you are teaching them. Your missing the whole point, and if your on a crusade it will backfire. You reference the homepage scroll down to see the deals provided by brokers, which drive traffic to the site. Brokers pay a monthly fee to join the site you can’t even support the site you have frequented for the last three years?
If the broker provided a poor service that’s what the review page is for.
I don’t make money off the site like you do.
What is the “whole point”? I don’t get your point on what 2-3 are already doing. How will my crusade backfire? I’m trying to help general consumers get better deals. Whats wrong with that?
I understand that this would dilute hackable deals. The alternative could be to further restrict pricing information to protect the hackable deals.
As others said - dealers, who give LH worthy deals, do not want to have their info posted here. And, in any case, you should not post any dealer’s info without asking them first, at least as a courtesy.
I get that, but why should I feel the need be courteous to the dealerships? They are not courteous to their consumers. They try to grind every dollar out of folks, and frequently lie (I’ve been lied to so many times).
I’m having trouble finding a reason to keep their information confidential, from the consumer’s point of view. If I, or the site can help people, why prioritize the dealer? I think the industry needs change.
Because you will look like an ass when the dealer you posted will tell someone from LH to go screw themselves after they ask for something implied in your post.
No I won’t. Its not my problem if the dealer won’t match the deal. If they don’t want to make another sale, thats on them. Why would I care?
So, are you trying to help or do disservice here?
I’m trying to help people by letting them know which dealers are likely to provide hackable deals. Through my many calls, I know there are many dealers with virtually no hope of a hacker worthy deal, and others with a high(er) probability of a hacker worthy deal.
I think it would be beneficial for people to share this information, and not have it only available by paying a broker.
Again, what other consumer industry operates like this?
What you are trying to do here is to screw brokers because you can’t stand someone making money and really helping others. Let’s go back to your original post:
No I’m not!
And thats what I’m pissed off about.
Anyone who thinks the site should help on price for free is accused of trying to screw brokers. My point in your quote was that I’d found broker level pricing, and could share the dealer. With the current norms, I can’t do that.
But maybe brokers don’t make as much sense if we change the way we operate.
Your not giving a shit attitude is the problem.
You think you’re helping people but you’re not
If you post a dealer name here, I guarantee they will never do a leasehackr deal again and they will contact the admins to get it removed.
I explained why above. They will get flooded with inquiries from uneducated people asking for unrealistic nonsense.
You are hurting the community. I can’t make it more clear.
So should I start my own brokering business for $5? Is that a viable solution?