I think the idea here is transparency.
Sure, anyone can take the numbers off a broker’s posted calculator and go out and make their own deal that a broker took the time to desk and get approval for but unless the broker is posting publicly the exact VIN and Dealer info then it is simply a guide to work off of. A guide that one can still fail (or surpass) at making work due to any number of factors.
Asking for up front disclosure of broker fees doesn’t mean a person is hung up on them. I think many people would want full disclosure up front to be able to compare deals. Have a box in the calculator that says broker fee, whether its $0, $500 or more, it should be listed / included in the break-down. If not in a calculator link, it should be required in all ads. If the broker is paid by the dealer, its $0, if the broker wants a fee from a fellow LH, then specify in every ad what that fee is. This way members know what those fees add to the monthly payment for comparison to another deal.
I have no issue w/ people making money for their time, effort and skills, its capitalism at its best. I’d be fine paying a broker $500 to find me a killer deal on a particular car(s) I want, since it could be 5-10hours of their time, but I’m not as comfortable in paying $500 to a broker who’s moving 20-30 of a certain vehicle per month en masse, and spends a small fraction of time per deal.
Why not? The end product is the same in either case. Your money in exchange for a hassle free and time considerate experience.
Let’s agree to disagree, it’s for me to decide what I’m comfortable with, knowing my finances.
I’m not suggesting to cap fees, just disclose them, so people can compare one deal to another. It seems too many ads don’t include them clearly in the ad. I checked the 12 most recent listings in the Marketplace, and only one NY broker ad detailed his fees.
Think of the dealership like a courtroom and a broker as an attorney.
You can certainly represent yourself and prevail given access to relevant material and knowledge but it is statistically rare (How many people get railroaded in either situation daily?) that one will do better for themselves than a professional who does this day in and day out.
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I think all of us ‘brokers’ would disagree with that.
You,as a regular contributor see LH as a pool of information with deals and the like to be sourced.
However, to us brokers, it’s a marketplace. It’s also one we’re charged for being a member of.
The general idea of this post was to standardize the fees and have a broken down number for every customer.
That’s just not something that’s realistic as different states, counties and even cities have different requirements when leasing a vehicle. Even if you nail down 99% of it, there are still going to be folks who fall outside of that range. I’ve had countless folks like that and there is nothing I can do about it if you live somewhere, where the registration fees or whatever drastically change the deal.
Regarding fee, that’s an overreach too I’d think. Are you going to require the folks on here who don’t charge the customer to disclose their fee? What if they do both? How can you standardize that? The community already decides if their fee is worth the cost of admission. Potential customers can go through a brokers review thread and see if that person is worth hiring or not.
Just to add to that -Lots of brokers here, myself included, check if folks are eligible for the deal before charging them. I’m unaware of anyone here who is hording fees and not providing a great deal.
Really, LH (@michael and @littleviolette) and the larger community have done a good job at scrutinizing the incoming brokers and making sure they work above the board. How many folks have been ripped for posting horrible deals or not disclosing how their numbers work? I don’t think we need much movement beyond what we already have. It’s a fair system that allows both parties to vet each other.
I think it’s also worth nothing that a lot of the deals that people source on here, come from brokers finding a niche deal and making it available via the marketplace.
Many already just use that structure to work a deal on their own.
First part of your message you said you are fine with brokers making money but now you aren’t fine
You are hung up on their fee. Period. If you don’t like their free then don’t use their service. Period. Doesn’t matter if they push 1 deal or 300 a month that shouldn’t matter for the customer.
It is like saying because tesla is selling thousands off cars they shouldn’t have large large profit margins. As a customer you shouldn’t focus on their profit margin, if you like the overall deal then go for it or don’t but stop counting other people’s money.
You keep saying transparency which is fine but then you specifically say you don’t want the broker making $500 per deal that they do en mass.
I think it’s time to charge the LH community a small fee (weekly, monthly, yearly) to access the broker deals in a separate forum from the general LH forum. Just my opinion.
Nah, you would be surprised how little amount of people would want to pay up, regardless of cost. People already try to skirt around brokers who would save them thousands on a deal, just to save a 400-500 broker fee.
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Ehh, that’s just going to hurt the brokers IMO.
Really the onus should be on the brokers to pay to post(which we do).
The system we have now is pretty solid.
Aside from 1-2 people (i guess you), no one will pay. I guarantee it.
Like i said, was just my opinion, I am so enjoying this site for over 4 years now and what the brokers put out there I would hate for there to be issues down the road. I am in favor of whatever @michael @littleviolette decide.
I’m just befuddled people can’t simply use the PM option to inquire rather than consistently want to be spoonfed everything.
How long does it take to submit a PM…10 seconds? And we’re arguing over how the deal structure is presented because it doesn’t include variable costs for DAS?
Ask…if you aren’t satisfied with the deal…move on to another.
The only time you may ever see a DAS amount is on a BS ad from a dealership trying to suck you in. Until you negotiate that further, you don’t know the DAS either. How do you find out…you either ask or attempt to structure a deal on your own and guesstimate. Why should it be different here?
This isn’t rocket science.
Sending a message is easy. I though brokers don’t want to be swamped with messages like that until you are sure to get a car from them. At least that’s what I’ve been told few times. But how can you get sure until you compare? Sending 10 brokers emails? Then follow up emails. All 10 brokers will be as they say wasting time on this one person. That’s one point.
As for broker fee. I can care less. @Bostoncarconcierge spend so much time just chatting w me on my Tacoma that it’s practically barely makes minimal wage:) Even if you take pre set deals for @Jrouleau426, he still take a good deal of time on back and forth with people all over US. Time still worth something.
I think partially my gripe is because of old days of the forum people have often posted calc link and detailed info for other to try on their own to find something If they wish. Now it feels 90% is posted in market place and it can’t be even tried replicate on their own in other parts.
It’s became from a group of sharing the knowledge to everyone keeping all details private except monthly payment.
How anyone can try to do it on their own who just joined? I was also spoonfed much of the knowledge I’ve learned but in early days of this forum life everyone was more willing to share the knowledge around.
But again I still think for dealer it may not be practical on certain brands like BMW. Way too many builds. Toyota on the other hand has only 3 or so trims:)
Like if I’m in Arizona and want to figure out if I want to have a deal from Toyota or Infinity or VW or what have you. Do I take from NY and pay broker and shipment or do I try to get the same locally? If I try locally there is not much to go on on many brands.
So how did we turn from sharing knowledge to “ask this or that broker”?
I agree with this. The broker fee probably breaks down to a penny a text, LOL.
Who cares what they want…we’re the customer. They’re the ones earning money. So what if they get bombarded…that’s not our problem…it’s theirs.