They’re still cranking out 23s. I’d guess they shut down in June. Retool and restart July.
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“Here we make up a bunch of things about what we hope the 4runner will be and come to the conclusion that a hev gets better fuel economy on long trips than a phev.”
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Is there any particular reason toyota does hybrids that dont qualify for any credits vs plugins ?
Are you asking why non-plugins don’t qualify for credits or why Toyota only has 2 plugins?
There is a big market for non-plug hybrids. And Toyota is a leader in that market.
You seem to assume an obviousness to the idea that all hybrids should be plug-ins. An obvious exception would be all the people who live in apartments in the US as well as around the world.
In all honesty… hybrids seem like a way to just make more money on basically the same product or a way to sell the ICE product as an alternative to paying inflated hybrid prices.
Do the Toyota hybrids get that much more MPG in relation to cost?
Back during the middle of Covid, at least 2 Toyota dealers were telling me that the hybrids weren’t worth the extra cost and to just get the gas model.
Not sure how a hybrid 4Runner can compete with a 4xe plugin for local commuting mileage but from a power perspective, the added electric torque could help for off-roading. The article says the hybrid Sequoia and Tundra is substantial difference in MPG but I don’t recall that much of a difference because the idea behind adding the hybrid powertrain was for more low end and instantaneous power.
I assumed the market for the plug-ins would be bigger/better than the non plugins but you and @max_g made some good points
There is still not a lot of general knowledge of plug-ins vs hybrids vs EVs.
Most people just assume hybrids have better gas mileage than their ICE counterparts but that really depends on the kind of driving.
Same with plug-ins but they mostly do well in local driving scenarios and the MSRPt/mark-up usually defeats the cost savings. But that’s why 4xes are a popular subject here because dealer discounts and Jeep incentives are higher than other plug-ins and the way CCAP applies them is beneficial to buyouts and even flips.
Also, generally speaking, buyers of ICE vehicles may not have access to home/work charging, don’t want to deal with developing infrastructure and may have driving habits that defeat PHEV/EV usage which some brands like Toyota have a larger percentage of.
So they stick with it because that market is not going away anytime soon despite state mandates.
PHEVs are supposed to be a transition product but ideally… cheaper EVs with better range, charge speed and more charging infrastructure should take over most commuter driving (some brands have abandoned PHEV models). For trucks, off-roading and non-commuter usage, PHEV/hybrids will have more use for power and lack of charging points.
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Was just at the Kill Devil Hills dealer on the Outer Banks and walked around the lot plebe-style for 15 mins. Never saw or heard from any salesperson.
6-10 4XE Wranglers sitting, nobody on the lot and $8.5k ADM on the Earl 392.
Memo not received.
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I’m very much surprised at the overall fuel economy of the GC 4XE
I got 455 miles [with a hair over 1/4 tank left] on my 1st fill up
Did 231 miles fully electric
That would’ve been 2 1/2 tanks of fuel in the TRX!
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But how fast would you get to your destination is the other consideration!
I’ve done ≈ 4600 miles in mine, I’ve filled it up 5 times
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Does anyone know the rough weight difference between the gladiator hard top and wrangler? I haven’t been able to find anywhere and even tried chatgpt lol
Just a random observation from Central Indiana. Took my GC 4xe in for the steering column recall today, and the dealership I brought it to had HUNDREDS of jeeps on the lot. Large marjoity of them were GCs, Wranglers, and Gladiators. I smell some even more serious rebates and discounts coming soon in my area.
Only problem is that particular dealer is so incredibly stiff with offering discounts that they’re gonna sit on that inventory for way too long waiting for someone to take their crap offers.
Yes I realize their high inventory and poor discounts are related. But other CDJR dealerships around me are in similar situations, hundreds of jeeps all around.
And that’s not just the case in Indiana, it’s everywhere. Jeep has over 100 days supply of cars, CDJR lots are full and It’s surprising how so many have held the line but keep in mind these are dealers who pre COVID always had this level of inventory on the lot and expect the factory incentives to grow to help it go away. Not what I would do in their situation with those floor plan interest rates a lot higher than they were a year ago. Also depends on what their regional competition is like. If all the dealers in the area are of the crap offer variety, then their margins are preserved.
And all while Toyota Honda Subaru and Kia lots are still empty with cars presold before they hit the lot.
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Let’s also not forget the level of turnover in car sales. A fair majority of the staff very likely started during or just before Covid. The tides are turning… back to when people had to work a little to sell units vs
having customers lined up, begging at the door.
I think many of the dealerships are going to have to step back and reassess their business as usual. Some will have a ruder wake-up call than others.
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Want to get back into a Wrangler 4xe for the summer. I have affiliate and wondering what that is worth compared to MSRP. I think affiliate is 1% below invoice. What does that translate to % below MSRP?
There are many dealers that will go much deeper than invoice minus 1% with affiliate. Invoice is like 2% off msrp on the 4xe now.
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Thanks for that. I doubted my research as Edmunds shows Sahara MSRP $58,640 and invoice $57,502 but that agrees with what you are saying. I am targeting at least 6% off MSRP which is lower than invoice minus 1%. Does affiliate mean I start at invoice minus 1% then push dealer for their 6% discount leaving me at invoice minus 7%?