Random Jeep chatter

They’re still cranking out 23s. I’d guess they shut down in June. Retool and restart July.

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“Here we make up a bunch of things about what we hope the 4runner will be and come to the conclusion that a hev gets better fuel economy on long trips than a phev.”


Is there any particular reason toyota does hybrids that dont qualify for any credits vs plugins ?

Are you asking why non-plugins don’t qualify for credits or why Toyota only has 2 plugins?

There is a big market for non-plug hybrids. And Toyota is a leader in that market.

You seem to assume an obviousness to the idea that all hybrids should be plug-ins. An obvious exception would be all the people who live in apartments in the US as well as around the world.

In all honesty… hybrids seem like a way to just make more money on basically the same product or a way to sell the ICE product as an alternative to paying inflated hybrid prices.

Do the Toyota hybrids get that much more MPG in relation to cost?

Back during the middle of Covid, at least 2 Toyota dealers were telling me that the hybrids weren’t worth the extra cost and to just get the gas model.

Not sure how a hybrid 4Runner can compete with a 4xe plugin for local commuting mileage but from a power perspective, the added electric torque could help for off-roading. The article says the hybrid Sequoia and Tundra is substantial difference in MPG but I don’t recall that much of a difference because the idea behind adding the hybrid powertrain was for more low end and instantaneous power.

I assumed the market for the plug-ins would be bigger/better than the non plugins but you and @max_g made some good points

There is still not a lot of general knowledge of plug-ins vs hybrids vs EVs.

Most people just assume hybrids have better gas mileage than their ICE counterparts but that really depends on the kind of driving.

Same with plug-ins but they mostly do well in local driving scenarios and the MSRPt/mark-up usually defeats the cost savings. But that’s why 4xes are a popular subject here because dealer discounts and Jeep incentives are higher than other plug-ins and the way CCAP applies them is beneficial to buyouts and even flips.

Also, generally speaking, buyers of ICE vehicles may not have access to home/work charging, don’t want to deal with developing infrastructure and may have driving habits that defeat PHEV/EV usage which some brands like Toyota have a larger percentage of.

So they stick with it because that market is not going away anytime soon despite state mandates.

PHEVs are supposed to be a transition product but ideally… cheaper EVs with better range, charge speed and more charging infrastructure should take over most commuter driving (some brands have abandoned PHEV models). For trucks, off-roading and non-commuter usage, PHEV/hybrids will have more use for power and lack of charging points.


Was just at the Kill Devil Hills dealer on the Outer Banks and walked around the lot plebe-style for 15 mins. Never saw or heard from any salesperson.

6-10 4XE Wranglers sitting, nobody on the lot and $8.5k ADM on the Earl 392.

Memo not received.