Marketplace filled with non-deal "deals"

Maybe I’m missing the point of this website existing, but I have found both before and after “market conditions” changing that a lot of the dealers who post in the marketplace are not really posting good deals, let alone hackr-worthy deals. Over the years I’ve communicated with a few who are downright scammy. Now I see dealers on here adding mandatory add-ons to their “deals” in what to me is the final straw that breaks the back of credibility.

Don’t get me wrong, there are some dealers on here who continue to offer great deals even in the current market. It just bothers me that with the number of users who come on and post really BAD deals, we also see our own member dealers doing their part to make these types of bad deals happen. Some even post them.

So here’s my suggestion: Marketplace listings should meet a minimum criteria in order to appear on the site. Perhaps have users upvote and then only if a deal gets a minimum threshold, will the post stay on the site. Or have some skilled hackers review the post before approving it. Do away with the long threads with hundreds of messages; let each deal stand on its own and not just on the back of a user’s reputation-by-participation.

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What you consider a ‘bad deal’ might be a sensational deal to another…

Then again we had the dealer who said incredible deals…with a ton of ADM…hence the Blessings Meme

It’s all your opinion, if it is a truly bad deal, then that broker / dealer will stop posting here. I’ve seen it plenty times.

Other times a dealer who has ‘bad adm deals’ keeps posting them and they keep getting sold…that’s a good deal…with adm.

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I don’t mind dealers or brokers posting deals at MSRP or higher. For example, the one broker who posts a lot of Kias / Toyotas but is very transparent about his broker fee and amount over MSRP. Posting an in-stock Telluride at $1k over MSRP is a valuable service; many users want to see that type of offer and would jump at it.

I have a different pet peeve, which I see in most SoCal broker listings. That is, only listing the MSRP and lease terms (DAS, monthly payment, term, and mileage) without listing the discount, if any, from MSRP. The discount is the main thing for evaluating a deal. Putting only the lease terms hides that information and is akin to dealers that don’t tell you the selling price and only want to talk about what monthly payment you can afford.

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Yeah I’ve seen that lack of discount thing a lot. Maybe standard fields could be added and required for marketplace posts?

I’m well aware that for some makes, merely getting a car is a “deal” and listing incoming opportunities or allocation is useful. But I’m not talking about that. Within the range of prices for every vehicle, there remain what I assume are sponsored posts at the high end of pricing even in this market. I’m not talking about a RAV4 hybrid at $3k over msrp being a bad deal. But I’ve seen the same models posted in the same geographical market, one at 8% off and another at MSRP. The one at MSRP doesn’t belong on this site IMO. What purpose does that serve? It just clutters the marketplace.

Then the issue of dealer add-ons… we all agree that this is a scammy garbage tactic to pad pricing. IMO leasehackr needs some standards for dealers and brokers and no add-ons should be one non-negotiable rule for posting marketplace deals.

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It’s a community. So if there’s a better deal to be had we share it. If a deal sucks we pan it. If a dealer is scammy well speak up and help us avoid that. But the three brokers on here I’ve worked on it helped ensure the “nitrogen in the tires” sales pitches stayed on the sidelines.

Plenty of marketplace sponsors (and thanks guys) compete against posts talking about their competition. Whether you get your Jeep through Lease companion who supports the site or Gupton who doesn’t but is great to work with doesn’t matter. The majority of us are over researchers and will turn over rocks until we can find something better.

Clearly some models or manufacturers aren’t competitive these days, and some buyers will pay more for convenience, but this seems like proposing a solution for something that isn’t a problem.

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So you think we should pan the “site supporters” who post bad deals?

I mean if there’s a better deal to be had share it… and I think that happens all the time in public posts and via PM but the real problem is that we’re in a market where if a buyer wants a particular model they’re paying a premium over what would have been possible in a normal market. And doing a lot better than local shopping yields. People end up here not as a first stop and it won’t likely be their last.

And if a dealer is shady even when that deal works with a sponsor people certainly share their experiences.

I’d say a lot of brokers know and admit some of what they can offer on certain models is “bad” but it’s the best they or most others can get today.

The idea of an open marketplace is that if a deal is not attractive it simply won’t sell. Why fix what isn’t broken?

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If it’s such a bad deal and you can do so much better, then why are they still getting leads?

Free market baby.

I spend way too much time on this site, and with my experience, I hope I know the automotive market better than others, it’d be impossible for the site to regulate the market in every single different region. A deal in SoCal might be trash in NorthEast, etc.

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IMO it is broken because you have a site with the purpose of “hacking” deals and you also have a bunch of irrelevant overpriced garbage being spammed in the marketplace because dealers pay to sponsor.

This isn’t about free market, this is about making a suggestion as a user of the site. The owners can improve the site by holding their advertisers to some standards that are in line with the purpose of the site. It will become more valuable to those who do advertise and weed out the dealers that are shady and wasting space and ultimately preying on users through positive association with a site where people think they are going to find a deal.

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To be fair even a shitty deal listed here is miles better than a normal deal to the uninitiated.

You can pay in dollars or you can pay in time. Which one is more valuable to you?

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This is where many good theories fall apart: the actionable part. The “remedy” you’re proposing needs to be way better than a popularity contest which can be easily gamed, or a cabal of omniscient overlords.

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I’ve noticed some brokers posting deals with only an MSRP and a payment. No selling price or discount %, no MF, etc. (much less an LH calculator link). I assume they’re doing that because those numbers suck. The lack of transparency with the numbers feels not in the spirit of this forum.

I think any one should have the freedom to post any offer they’d like, BUT I’d like to see every poster disclose the basic set of numbers (MSRP, selling price or discount %, required add-ons if any, fees if any, MF or markup if a lease offer) or ideally post an LH calc link

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It would be great if you could propose a more elegant solution. If you can’t, then please don’t just shoot down those who do come up with ideas. I would rather have required criteria and a few “overlords” than what we have right now.

Thank you for your suggestions! We evolve our community standards and guidelines over time. The current Marketplace advertising standards can be found here. If you find a thread in violation of these guidelines, please feel free to PM @admins or flag the offending post (and cite the guideline that’s been violated).


Original Post (OP) Requirements

The OP is the first post that shoppers see when viewing a Marketplace topic. An effective OP will convey all essential information and result in fewer repetitive questions. Please update the OP whenever new deals become available. All OPs shall include the following at minimum:

  • Date last updated
  • Currently available deals* (links to specific posts or spreadsheet are allowed)
  • Instructions on how to obtain the deal, including contact information

*Does not apply to Dealers bound by manufacturer advertising covenants.

Advertising Standards

Dealer or Broker advertisements posted on, or linked to, the Marketplace should include the following:

  • Approximate MSRP
  • Amount due at signing
  • Monthly payment
  • Months and annual mileage
  • Broker fee amount, if required (disclose on every post that contains a deal, not just OP)

If the amount due at signing is advertised as “first + taxes + fees”, provide an estimation of the drive-off amount based on seller’s state.

If conditional incentives are included in the deal, disclose the dollar amount of those incentives, and provide an estimate as to how much more the deal would be without incentives.

Marketplace titles that include a monthly payment shall specify what is due at signing. Titles shall not be predominantly in all-caps.

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Ah okay. It would be nice if the marketplace listings also required discount off MSRP as a lot of buyers use that as their primary metric for deals.

FWIW - LH is a pretty efficient market - if your deals suck (frankly if they’re even average) relative to the market, no one will buy a car, and thus no one comments, or brokers don’t post deals etc.

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It is a free market. If brokers/dealers are posting “bad deals” as you say, then folks won’t gravitate to those deals.

EDIT:

Posting a discount off MSRP is useless, unless the Money Factor (MF) is also posted. For example, one dealer might post a higher discount (but mark up the MF), while another dealer might post a lower discount (with a base MF).

I’m sure there are many people who come to LH and jump on the first deal they see, without doing any research.

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Of course. There are folks who come to this site after signing a terrible deal too.

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