How did you get your Unicorn Deal?

In general I have a target based on research. I am still struggling to get them negotiate on the price, they just like to communicate the monthly payment. Then I question the variables in the last part.

Stelvio, Last day of the year during Covid. After couple texts payment was already in my range. We had a call, I put a number out there and said if he can do it, will give the card number. He called 5 minutes later to get the card number. (It was an amazing deal ) Made money by driving that car at the end:)

True Unicorn was my Wrangler 4xe
Everything was via text. He told me a price and Monthly payment and confirmed lowest Mf. It was kinda close to calculator so I said ok, (was still higher than preorders because I was taking the only Rubicon they had in stock)gave CC number and drove to dealer.
When the contract came. I saw the price was $2k higher than what he claimed to be (monthly payment was the same) He tried to convince me saying we agreed on monthly payment, I told him we agreed on price, he got pissed but went back. Came with a new contact lowering monthly payment by $25. (obviously he increased mf some.) Challenged him again and he came back with a contract somehow which was way below than the calculator showing to me. Happily signed without arguing:) Later I discovered they gave me one pay mf even though I did 24 months. Not sure how but didn’t question lol.

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Someone must have been a baby’s hair away from volume bonus for them to make that deal.

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So…basically…research, timing, baby’s hair away from dealer getting the goodies, stealing, taco bell gift cards, stalk better hackers, timing, spray and pray, and luck helps.

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For that I just build/figure out my target deal in calculator and then they can play their games as much as they like as long as we reach my target payment and DAS.
We can communicate payment all they want as long as it at or lower what calculator shows it should be. How they got there vs calculator - don’t care.

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I’ve discussed this before but will never understand dealers getting pissy and preachy about how dare you ask for a strong discount. It seems like there’s two types of people: those who understand this is just a numbers game, and those who think numbers are emotions (“this deal just doesn’t feel right” rather than just look at what is adjustable in the equation). If I ever get someone who wants to talk about the “feel” of the numbers I immediately politely give up and find another salesperson.

The problem with discussing payment is (unless you get an well-versed salesperson) you’re going to immediately turn off the salesperson by going too low because they don’t necessarily know what’s in the realm of possibility and they will not work with you. Remember the bell curve - the salesperson is most likely going to be well versed in the mid to high part of that bell curve, so asking for the absolute bottom will be several orders of magnitude out of their usual comfort zone.

Sometimes you have to kind’ve lead them slowly towards your target by negotiating the various aspects. E.g. Several RS eTron GT leases on here - $155k MSRP for $600-700 month. If you come to the salesperson asking for $600-700 a month on a car that the salesperson is expecting to lease for ~$2000+ a month they’ll immediately think you’re not serious. But if you ask for 10% off MSRP, then that’s something they can work with. Then add incentives… then add base MF, etc. and next think you know the salesperson is saying “wow this payment is lower than I thought it would be!”

(then the car is somehow magically sold by an “in-person” buyer and the salesperson is coincidentally driving the car you want :roll_eyes:)

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It feels (lol) like that is just another negotiation tactic. “How dare you ask for more! The local market does not support that! All of your research is wrong! Please sign for MSRP and ADM cause that is the reality!”

/slaps the Volvo roof — “You know this Volvo is essential for you as a single male, this is an excellent deal”

To be fair, sometimes I get requests that make me wonder where they got that number from despite being aware of some of the absurd (fundamentally) deals that get posted here from time to time.

Oh I bet, can be crazy on both sides of the equation.

Could you give us an example of what you would consider an “absurd deal”?

299/m - 0 das m340, or anything I ever text Chris about or sign

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Here are some from @AutoCompanion’s profile, free Z4 sounds nice:

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I’m well aware of that, and hence, try to find GM or GSM contact info on the dealership’s time, including email and phone number, and skip any salesperson.

any “come to the dealership” are always politely declined, and if they insist they do their negotiation this way, I tell them I’m not their client.

I was able to get ~24% off a fully loaded demo m235i and a LH score of 12.4 in Feb of 2021 by having the stars all align.
Demo unit was on the lot for a while sitting, had just over 5k miles and BMW had just opened up leasing incentives to cars over 5k at the time.
I had a good offer from the dealer initially after some back and forth, then they lowered the price of the car on their site by 1k plus I got an OL code.

With the 9.5% L.A. tax rate I am at 350/mo with 1300 drive off for a 52k MSRP car
Hoping to extend this lease out since it is so cheap :smiley:

Shoutout to @spockvr6 for helping me reverse engineer the calculator and also inspiring me to hack one of these when my 340i lease was coming due!

I think you do understand why the dealers get that way. The dissonance is the dealer mindset doesn’t jive with the consumer mindset, and I don’t think normal customers are willing to accept just how adversarial car-buying at traditional dealerships has become (in general; not the LH-experience).

Auto sales has been honed for decades. And most importantly, it follows the rule of first degree price discrimination (nothing to do with race discrimination).

Price Discrimination - Definition, Types and Practical Example.

Simply put, the buyer and seller have to negotiate everything in first degree price discrimination. In this sales model, the goal of the seller is to capture as much “consumer surplus” as possible. As dealerships have learned, the seller has significant leverage and advantage in a first-degree price discrimination. They’ve spent decades honing their art and knowing how to press buyers into paying more than the buyer normally would.

Buyers by and large do not know the dozens of tactics dealers use to maximize the transaction price. But buyers do feel the pain of those tactics. How many cars does a normal buyer (not @djrabbi) have in their lifetime? Compare that with millions of samples to learn from on the sales side.

So to answer your question on understanding dealers getting preachy and pissy - it’s because anger and pejoratives are the first line of defense when a customer pushes back against the dealer. Dealers are accustomed to having all the advantage in the negotiation. A buyer who presses too hard turns the tables and makes the dealer amazingly uncomfortable and reticent to do a deal with that particular buyer because now the dealer is the one being shaken down.

As we enter the recession, I think all buyers should realize the cash they bring to the table is the advantage. They should be playing the hardest of hard-ball to squeeze as much utility out of that first degree price discrimination. They can get below triple-net when they convince that sales manager that a 300+ days lot anchor isn’t going to move in the next 30 days. And the buyer is literally saving them from flooring costs and carrying costs by taking that trash off their hands. Negative margin transactions should feel as bad to the dealers as the good feels they got when taking massive ADM from buyers.

I think LH brokers/dealers know that they’re just enticing sales based on low pricing, and it’s a completely different experience. But remember, the low-cost deals LH brokers get to liquidate here are only enabled because 99% of other car transactions to the general public are the byproduct of an aggressive sales approach that maximizes hassle on the buyer so that it maximizes dealer margins. You can’t have the good of LH without the bad of the normal sales model screwing* over everyone else.

Edit: * for the LH users who are also sales people - I am not saying you individually are screwing over people. I’m speaking to the general sales model of conventional franchised dealerships in the USA. I think the way LH deals happen is great, but the way LH brokers/sales clears inventory is probably frowned upon by the normal car dealership.

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Guys please stop digging through my trash cans, my family and neighbors are starting to notice

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You’ve already lost the war by entering into any such back and forth. Chances that you’ll win it are infinitesimal. The only realistic outcomes are that you’ll overpay or not have the car.

Learn how to make offers instead.

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I agree! 101010

As a tactic to use if you’ve already stepped inside a dealership maybe that works for you.

As a repeatable, scalable strategy it’s not a good one for most consumers.

How many dealerships will they step into and step out of before someone says yes? Nobody has that kinda time to waste.

Just because some unit is at 330+ days doesn’t mean the GM will agree. Ego and a lot of other irrational things get in the way of what are theoretically rational negotiations.

I don’t think people necessarily have to walk into a showroom to transact on aged inventory. But as a demonstration of intent to buy, physically being there does help convince whoever is the decision-maker on site to just get the trash metal off the yard.

You’re right, negotiating in person sucks. And for LH users here I think it’s 99% easier to do stuff via text/email than go in person if it’s possible. But targeting aged inventory is still a valid strategy to get at vehicles that are usually more heavily discounted. I’m not sure what you’re intending to dispute here.

@thevolvoguy will appreciate this… so San Leandro Volvo here in NorCal actually had a room that was designed as a “sweatbox.” The windows face South and the HVAC register probably has some towels stuffed in it. The computer in there works, but the printer does not. There no food/snacks in here.

So that’s the room they put you in when you are negotiating on site. The salesperson always has an “out” since they can just say they need to print something or talk to the sales manager. But the customer is sweating if they sit in there.

Buying a Volvo already sucks. Buying a Volvo in person sucks more.

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