Even if carvana/vroom/carmax wouldn’t offer list price, wouldn’t any loss he would take now still be significantly less then keeping the car and paying $900 a month?
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Probably he’s on his shift. He got the car on sticker plus all the possible additives they can put on. Ouch. I’m just helping him for maybe remove some of the crap he signed up for.
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He has a cap cost of $52,865.95. An EX-L has an MSRP around $41k.
At absolute minimum he’s looking at $12k negative. He’s got a 602 credit score. Even if he found a vehicle that would allow $12k to be rolled in before the max LTV, it’s extremely unlikely that he would get anything close to zero interest.
Mike, its very nice of you to try and help him out.
Honestly, I wonder if they could go to some State Agency or HFS and file a complaint for bad business practices or even fraud in the case of double GAP insurance. Maybe theres a way they can make noise and get out of the deal, or perhaps get a restructure payment.
At 9% sales tax and max MF (assuming that he could even be approved by BMFS), the $12k would wind up costing $14.3k over 36mos.
Ah, makes sense.
They got him to sign $35.5k total cost to lease it and still have $24.5k RV at the end.
For trying to make money or for manipulating OP into a broke dick deal because they had bad credit? It’s sucks but the OP should have informed themselves of the possibilities before anything.
It’s a matter of ethics…I personally could not sleep at night doing that and knowing someone is uninformed makes it worse IMO but that’s just me. There really is a fine line.
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Maybe OP should spend some time investigating this. I would think the double GAP insurance falls under this guideline, and I would recommend reaching out to HFS and tell them you’re about to file a complaint on the stealership and Honda.
https://www1.nyc.gov/nycbusiness/description/consumer-protection-law
The New York City Consumer Protection Law forbids all “deceptive or unconscionable trade practices in the sale, lease, rental, or loan, or in the offering for sale, lease, rental, or loan of any consumer goods and services, or in the collection of consumer debts.” Under the Consumer Protection Law (commonly referred to as CPL), the Department of Consumer Affairs has authority to adopt rules prohibiting practices it defines as deceptive or unconscionable.
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In the past i canceled extended warranty (prorated) and ware and tear and service agreement which was fully refunded (by law in CA you have to request it in 60 days or less). He needs to check his state laws, CA usually has plenty in favor of the consumer…not sure about NY.
While i agree with some of you about personal responsibility, this type of deal should be criminal. This is predatory and gives the good guys on this forum a bad name.
OP, sorry this happened to you…make it the last time.
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Just can’t see how anyone can defend paragon honda.
Why are dealers allowed to operate this way? It is neither capitalism nor free market!
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Operate what way? I don’t understand this argument. It’s a private business and they can operate however they want to. Don’t like it? Go to the next Honda dealer 4 miles away. One cannot be a “leasehackr” attempting to take advantage of and leverage lease market imbalances and yet also demand that prices be capped, or even worse, fixed. These concepts are contradictory.
I am free to list the 2018 Accord that I bought last year for $27k for $35k online. If someone comes along and buys it for my asking price, am I a villain? It’s a silly argument. Sorry but I don’t feel bad for OP or anyone else that willingly and freely enters into a legal contract.
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No you are not a villain. However, there are some differences
- Most Americans are not familiar with car-buying experience, they don’t encounter people trying to shake them for every nickle every day. Plus car leasing is VERY confusing to almost everyone. There is no interest rate, what is capitalized costs etc, incentives are for whom etc. This isnt anyones fault but it is what it is.
- The dealer actually sold them things that they didnt know they were buying. If the dealer sold them the car at msrp, thats fine thing. Selling protections that the OP may not be aware, jacking MF etc now thats robbery in my $0.02.
I don’t think selling product and selling the loan for more than what is qualified is inherently bad but manipulating a consumer into accepting that due to a credit disadvantage is just in poor taste and if the OP is ready to put their dukes up they might just be able to get it rectified.
- This is just excusing ignorance and perpetuates the victim mentality. Sorry but I only feel bad for children who get taken advantage of. OP is not a child without the capacity to understand these concepts and/or seek help.
- This isn’t possible. Have you ever been to the F&I office? Legally, they have to explain and you have to sign for every single thing that is purchased. You have the opportunity to ask as many questions as you want, phone a friend, get up and take a walk around the block, or just decline. Let’s not act like Jack Bauer tied him to a chair and hooked him up to a lead acid battery.
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yup F & I will tell you what you’re buying and ask for your consent and ask you if you understood it. I even went into one that they record the conversation (ofcourse they’ll ask for your permission), that for me is something that needs to be standardized.
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Sure, problem is “explain” can mean alot of things. 3 years ago i was offered a maintenance and ware protection deal on a eGolf for $1400. I never take these but the financing guy made his sale pitch. He told me that the 10k and 20k service was expensive and cost almost $1k. We almost walked out but somehow we ended up signing. The next day i found out that the 10k is just tire rotation while the visual inspections at 20k were about $200. After a heated phone call i got there to be confronted by the finance guy, the GM and security…it was a long drive so i had time to calm down. In the end it is CA law and they had to refund. In addition, they kept the deal on the contract for free. Point is, don’t underestimate the power of a good “explanation”.
Otherwise you make some good points which i tend to agree with…most days.
I mean, new car sales contracts have the truth-in-lending disclosures pretty in pretty large, bold font and are pretty standardized across dealers. They are going to point at each box and say “This is your APR. This is how much the financing will cost. This is how much we’re going to finance. This is how much all of your payments are going to be.” It’s pretty cut and dry, but people are too scared/proud/anxious to slow things down.
To the OP, at least you didn’t get hosed as bad as this person: