It seems he is searching long and hard for justification to stiff the dealer. I’m of the mind that dealer probably didn’t commit a criminal act for $800, but just my opinion.
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So, this is how I envision this went down (and I have actually been privy to similar situations so it is not out of the realm of possibility).
Otto signs contract
Finance guy (for whatever reason) prints a new contract with higher payment and lower miles. $663 for the payment as you calculate plus the change in residual of 3% of the MSRP (one person earlier said the dealer does not benefit from changing the residual, they do. The payment is supposed to go down but if you change the residual and keep the payment the same, the dealer makes more profit). I don’t know what MSRP was but let’s assume $40K for an infiniti = $1200. That’s $2K-ish pure profit. The finance guy can make 300 - 500 on that depending on commission plan. Now, let’s assume this guy does this a few times a month or he is one service or contract ot hard add away from a bonus, that’s some good money.
Finance guys sends new contract with fake signature to bank in hopes customer doesn’t realize what is going on.
The guy got greedy by upping the payment. If he had only changed the residual, lowered the miles, and kept the payment the same, 9 out of 10 people would probably never notice. That is until they return the car, by that time chances are the finance guy is long gone and the money is already spent. I wonder if the finance guy who printed up the contracts is still employed at the dealer.
It’s all conjecture of course. Unless you see the actual contract that went to the bank and compare signatures. But I do NOT believe that the dealer “lost” or “no longer has” the original contract (the carbon copy of course - the original goes to the bank). Another thing that makes me suspect foul play.
You are thinking of the entity, not the individual. The “dealer” didn’t do anything except try to fix the issue. This was some finance guy that was trying to kink the system. All in all, Otto needs to pay the $800. He owes it and that is that. But to think some finance guy wouldn’t commit what he thought was the perfect crime for $300 - $500? People get killed for less than that. Especially if he was on his way out anyway. No repercussions! Again, this is all conjecture but it sure is fun.
Just seems strange to me, even someone not paying attention would have noticed their monthly payment was higher than what they signed, I don’t see how their FI guy was going to pull off a scam on otto. If anything, my guess is they were trying to pull a fast one on the bank based on how they structured the deal and it backfired.
Who really knows. @otto has two options, pay and move on with his life or not pay, contact Attorney General’s office and see this ugly mess to its messy conclusion. If it were me, my curiosity and anger wouldn’t be great enough to not just get my credit card points and move on, but if he thinks there is deliberate wrongdoing, there is a public policy argument for preventing the dealer (dealer is responsible for oversight of its employees whether or not the employee is rogue or not) from doing this to others (if you think one slap would stop the practice anyhow).
Yea, that is the only thing that gives me doubt about the theory. That is a horrible move/idea if someone deliberately changed his payment. No way that doesn’t get found out (ooh, unless he also signed him up for auto deduction but even still).
But again, if the dude was on his last 2 weeks and was moving out of town… Or simply doesn’t have to F’s to give.
The Nissan dealer my dad bought a car was raided by State troopers, local police and other law enforcement. This was two weeks after we bought the car, brand new, for a little under $30k. No answers from anyone, until 3-4 years later, when investigation was complete.
I misunderstood his point about mileage. I thought he was assuming at term, the dealer would get the mileage penalty.
The “stepping stone program”. I wonder if they printed fake brochures at Kinkos.
ABSOLUTELY! I worked with a guy who used to have customers sign blank contracts and he would fill in the blanks saying, “It will be no higher than $450 (or whatever).” It wasn’t and they were ok with it. It’s not the same thing, but there’s many many ways to dupe a customer. Slick sales/finance guy/girl make BIG $. Dealer will always back them if they are bringing in huge $. Believe that
OK I though I knew all the tricks pulled by dealers but I guess there’s more to it. Can anyone explain how can the dealer fudge the residual even though it’s set by the bank? And how exactly does the sales guy pocket that profit without the difference spotted by the dealerships controller? Unless he’s on it too.
Wow. I don’t think even dealers know all possible tricks they can technically pull.
They cannot change the residual. They can change the miles per year which would allow for a higher or lower residual. However, the dealer/finance guy would only benefit if the residual got higher and he did not change the payment For example, payment going into finance is $350 at 15K miles/yr. The finance guy drops the miles to 10k (and hence increases the residual 3%) decreasing the payment to $330. However, instead he adds a lease care or paint protection (whatever) for an amount brings the payment back to $350. Then we can offer it to you for another 10, 20 or whatever bucks and boom, he sells a product. The finance guy doesn’t keep the money, he makes commission on the sale of the product but he just padded his commission by the switch of the miles. The controller (or whomever) would not be the wiser because everything is signed appropriately.
Sometimes the client is in on it unwittingly by just signing on the dotted line. When finance guy says I am going to give you this $1000 add on for $10 a month (for 36 months) instead of being suspicious people just get excited and sign on the line because they think they are beating/cheating the system or winning. Sometimes they just get duped and sometimes guys forge contracts. However, the math does not lie.
Anyway, that’s how it can happen.
Hey guys, just an update. got my plates made the payments, but now I received the title from the secretary of state for this car… haha not sure what to think about getting the title. What do I do? Did I just “come up” on a car considering I have the title? I’m still making payments as expected and will continue to do so, but I’m absolutely surprised and confused that I have the title to this leased vehicle in my name.
Does the title list a lien holder? In any case, call up IFS and ask them what to do with the title.
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No, you didn’t just win a free car. Having the title doesn’t really mean shit when IFS has paperwork proving that they own the car and you are just leasing it. Is it an original title or a duplicate, is there a lienholder? Same thing happened to me, I had the original title from the MVC, but the leasing company got a duplicate, so my copy was now worthless. Plus, it’s not worth committing fraud and getting sued over a cheap ass car that you can lease new for $300/mo.
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