You would be shocked or people like to pretend it applies to everyone but them. I just had someone ask today what discount I could give them on a new 911 GTS and if I had any new GT3s in inventory.
Not that I think journalists are great at reporting industry trends (clickbait makes money) or the CEO is right for the majority of customers in this specific instance, but I would trust them over one random Ford sales guy. But it sounds like he is missing a great opportunity to build his incoming pipeline while still selling fresh units.
Asking price is rarely the true transaction price. We have had some people want stupid money for their trade-ins and our data shows that the average unit has been sitting for 60+ days and there are 500 available. Go sell it to Carvana and when the market adjusts, they will be left holding the bag for thousands of cars.
Supply and demand. That simple. Sure there may be some market manipulation at the round table as usual. Regardless this wonāt end minus the culmination of 1 out of 2 events, increased supply or financial crash. For nowā¦
If you really want to have a laugh go on exotic cars for sale on Facebook. 2015s with 20k are all msrp and aboveā¦must be nice to drive an exotic for 7 years and not pay a nickel. Wish I did thatā¦
Wait, arenāt these programs what most corrupt business owners and mega corporations are using to get free money and return nothing to the consumer/workforce?
Those PPP along with few local grants (in small amounts) were forgivable help. EIDL has to be repaid.
Unless youāre talking about people who obtained (PPP & Grants) those funds with fraudulent information & used it for personal expendetures, those funds were only forgivable if you paid salaries & rents during the pandemic.
But yeah some would have you believe otherwise.
So technically itās helping the businesses stay afloat not free money for employees.
Gov was basically handing them out to anyone and everyone who can show some sort of loss in that quarter year over year
Not sure what news source youāre referring to. Doesnāt matter if it has to be repaid or not, point is people have money in their pocket that isnāt burning a hole with interest. When you pay salaries with it itās still free money you wouldāve otherwise had to pay out of pocket.
Not hitting my target audience because there a lot of dealers and sales people here who have skin in the game, but in actuality this is supposed to be a ālease hackerā forum. I donāt think that means hacking to overpay, if so this needs to be clarified in the mission statement of the websiteā¦
Iām aware that not most but some do pay the markup but my point is that even that small number is significant, specially when the supply is also small. It means that most people are paying markup on most sales and they are given the excuse of āchip shortageā, āsupply shortageā, āoverpriced dealer add-onsā, āmarket adjustmentsāā¦pick one or many.
I think you have a faulty definition of what overpaying is.
Personally, I define a good ādealā as something that is multiple standard deviations below the mean. Itās a relativistic measurement. It requires having a good understanding of what the current market conditions are, and optimizing that. It certainly is not something as cut and dry as āanything over msrp is a bad dealā, just as āanything 5% under msrpā isnāt an indicator of a good deal.
Msrp is a number that the manufacture pulls out of their ass. It isnāt an objective value.
As an informed consumer, it is in our best interest to maximize our position in the current market. That is totally independent of whatever made up number the manufacture decided to use.
Half right. Not the target audience because people who are better informed or want to be better informed come here. Youāll find very few visitors who are coming here because they plan to pay a markup. The public isnāt seeking out a site about hacking leases and then seeing your post and saying āOMG! Really?! I was totally planning on that until you said not to. Whew!ā
Iād also add that the greatest value this site offers to people learning to be informed consumers is really broken down into having a solid understanding of the realities of the market conditions and the knowledge and confidence to navigate the marketplace effectively. There are times when that looks more like finding the select few dealers in the country that will order a vehicle at msrp or how to use a discord server to backdoor tesla listings to skip the line than what the discount du jour on a bmw is.
You havenāt been here in 2 years, so no one needs a lecture from you on what this site is and isnāt.
And yeah @Qbrozen was right. This is completely the wrong audience. People on this forum are generally focused on paying the least possible in any given circumstance. So of all the places on the net this is the last place that needed you to get up on a soapbox.
I have always wondered about the whole relationship situation. Are you talking about your brotherās BFF since elementary school or are you talking about a dealer/salesman you emailed, bought from in the past who is not someone you have dinner with?
I personally have never bought from the same person twice although I have tried, and once from the same dealership twice and did not get any better deal than someone off the street. However, I have friends that go back every 3 years to the same salesman and dealership (Mercedes, BMW and Honda, different people). Sometimes more often in the case of BMW and Honda where both spouses drive the same brand. I think the guy who goes to BMW does get a better deal because he is the type to know the ins and outs of everything (or so he says, I have no idea nor do I care as I do not drive BMWs although they are good cars), I tried the Honda dealership in 2018 and could not get as good a deal, either on my trade or the new car, as I was offered elsewhere so I am not sure how good a deal my friends are really getting (I am not usually buying a car at the same time so there is no real way to compare a deal from July 2019 to July 2018 for example.)
I really do wonder about this, is there a particular technique (beyond buying two cars each month)? What type of dealerships do you frequent? High volume, smaller dealerships? Dealerships that look small but are actually normally high volume because they sell through the brokers or something else
Not defending the average American but the news has sensationalized and underplayed. For example in July my lease was up. I got a call from the dealerās kid assistant in June. I explained I did not know my plans. They seemed eager for my business. I asked how the supply chain thing was going. He said that it seems to be resolving and they will have good stock by July/August (we all know how that check is in the mail story went). The point being that I could have taken it at face value meanwhile every month since June has been worse! Plus most people believe themselves to be the exception!
What I cannot understand is how are they making money? The dealerships near me used to sell 300 or more cars a month. Now they have 25 - 100 in inventory and this after a holiday weekend so who knows how many are available! Can you really make more money selling 1/4 of the cars you did previously? What am I missing, seriously asking here.
As for waiting, once upon a time that was how all cars were bought but it became cheaper to sell accessory packages so there was no need to customize, I think the Japanese introduced this concept. Now we expect the cars to be available until recently. The problem with now, is that, first most people are used to waiting until their lease is almost up because most of the time, when they start shopping they buy quickly, and they expect that the car will be there, maybe not their first choice of color but usually. Second, I did not want wait for a new version of my chosen car because I was not sure when the manufacturer was going to be back and I did not think the dealership was going to prioritize my deal because some idiot is paying $5000 over MSRP so they will sell it to him. Not the same as 1977 when you ordered it, and it came in 6 weeks later as promised
Nope, this was a dealership that was local to a town I had just moved to. I wanted to check out the car and went there to see what they could offer. I walked in expecting the same āweāre giving you the bestā attitude. Gave me a crazy number and as I was walking out, salesperson caught me and said manager wants to beat whatever number you have. Manager was shocked how much detail I had prepared in order to get this car and he cut the BS after he knew that I understood how a lease worked. He got real close to beating the deal I came up with but couldnāt quite get there, but we kept talking and I helped a friend get that car from him. This was now 6 years ago.
We have become friends outside of the dealership and will occasionally get lunch/dinner. The dealership is a mid-level dealership and nothing special. He knows the types of cars I like so heāll let me know when they get one in or if they are going to be bidding on one (if used). My family and extended family have gotten over 6 cars from them in 2021. They always work out a great deal and have cut the BS.
I do not buy a car every time I am in there. Sometimes Iāll go in for service and just chat with them for a while, sometimes just to check out a car they have in inventory, and sometimes just to shoot the shit. Iāve always gotten the GM and sales manager a nice bottle on their birthday and christmas which I think definitely helps.
This is also just dependent on the person and might not have anything to do with the dealership/what they offer. Itās very YMMV and you have to network. Iāve always found it harder to get a much better deal at a Toyota/Honda because they know theyāll sell the car. With Honda, I have a dealer I prefer and he is usually the non-bs straight forward bit above average when it comes to the discount which works out for me but they donāt get any other special treatment other than a lunch on day of delivery or something similar.
I go car shopping a lot as I have two close friends who I buy for and whenever my parents need a new car and I enjoy it but in between I tend not to stop by. Also, I have a great mechanic so only warranty work goes to the dealership. I think it is probably me but I often find the opposite. If I start talking about MF and holdbacks, one of two things happens, either the salesman completely has no clue or the sales manager tries harder to justify the deal. I have found that it does not pay to sound too smart initially (horrible lesson I know) although by the time the deal is done there is mutual respect but I tend to let them talk first and tell me what a good deal I am getting on my $500 base corolla or whatever. I have one lower end luxury dealership that I have a salesman there that I like and deal with and bring friends, sometimes they buy. I am sure I would get a better deal there but I will still shop everyplace else first just to be sure.
I think my friend with the BMW is similar, I know they have called him when they get something specific, especially if he is close to lease end or they know he is looking.
Out of curiosity what brand dealership is this? If not the specific brand then what country?
I have had the experience where knowing too much works against me and knowing too much also helps, it just depends on how you come across and present that information. When I first learned about all this, I definitely went in guns blazing and ready to blab everything I know which was a hit or miss, mostly miss. When I carefully presented everything I knew and put that in conversation form, it worked most of the time (in at least getting a better deal). If I am not shopping at that dealership, I do not tend to go in unless I really need to test drive the car. I work all deals over phone/email and go in once I have confirmation that something really can be done.
This is a luxury dealership (think BMW, Mercedes, etc.) that I have maintained this relationship. If I have a crazy deal from them, Iāll share that here once in a while if I do not have anyone to take it.
Since 2020 I have helped to buy or lease 4 or 5 cars, including for myself. I would like another car but am waiting because it is not urgent I am not ready to put the work in. I will need to test drive the next car because I am planning to get something new to me plus I tried the email route in mid 2020 and it simply did not work. It worked well in 2018, in 2020, they ignored me with the exception of one Honda dealer that had the best deal but I ended up not getting a Honda for other reasons plus the only reason he was willing to deal with me is because someone who had bought from him gave me his name. I ended up buying from a more remote dealer of another brand that it turned out despite being in the middle of nowhere (by my standards) was a huge volume dealer (they sell through brokers a lot the manager later told me). The manager realized pretty quickly that I did not care because my spouse was the one who wanted the car (I buy all cars, spouse hates cars and driving), I only cared about the price. Even so he tried to screw me on the price (said the extra 2k I was putting down would include all taxes, when I went to pick up two days later (an hour before we had to leave on a road trip!) there was an extra $300 in taxes on the incentives that I caught. They waived it otherwise I would have walked and would have made do, probably would have gotten the Honda at that point. When I bought last summer I did not even try the email route, there are simply so few cars
One of the thing us dealers see that the consumers donāt is what the manufacturers did to the dealers with this shortage
For example, the brand I work with averages $1000 or less between MSRP and invoice, the manufacturers went from front gross (larger gap between invoice and MSRP) to back end stair step money paid out every quarter to the dealership. With the shortage, the manufacturers realized they donāt need to pay to move inventory and with most brands the big stair step hidden money from the manufacturer is gone. We had to add a small adjustment to keep our doors open . Some competitors are 10-15k over, my store is not. Used cars are impossible to buy for smaller dealers too, as they are at retail at AVC, Mannheim OVE etc
Keep in mind Iām not talking about the massive dealer groups, Iām talking about smaller franchise stores with maybe 1 or 2 locations
