I saw another broker post a few bullet points on their deals page, one of which said something on the lines that the listed discount and price was non-negotiable.
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They likely have already, and when they failed, decided to try the broker route.
I get it that car sales is a game for both sidesā¦but these people arenāt in business to give cars away either. People donāt understand that, and itās just a slimy, shady dealership if they wonāt. Iām not saying you should pay MSRPā¦but be realistic. I can tell by many posters, there are plenty of whom are not, and will be looking a loooooong time.
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That wonāt deter the type of person who is asking for more off a 20% deal
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The problem is that there is a large subset of users on this site that are here simply for a quick hit and run for the best ādeal.ā They donāt put in the effort or the research to understand the components of the deal and to understand what is realistic in their local market. They register for the forum, maybe search for the makes/models they are interested in, spam some members for dealer/broker contact info and then expect that they can just waltz into a dealer demanding this price with the expectation that they will get it.
I am relatively new member myself, but joined well in advance of my lease renewals and put in the effort to read the board regularly to keep a pulse on the deals people were getting in my area. I went in with the understanding of how those were structured so that when I began to seriously inquire with dealers, I knew what I was doing and knew how to communicate with dealer to structure the best deal possible for me. I wasnāt likely going to get the best deal ever, but certainly not going to get taken to the cleaners since I was armed with the knowledge I gained from obsessively reading this board.
Admittedly, I am one of the people that got a pretty good Q7 deal at 17% off MSRP. I asked for 20 from the dealers I reached out to, but settled happily at 17% because it was still a great deal for an Audi and was able to get into a car that a year ago would have been substantially more expensive to lease.
In the Q7 threads, there are some overzealous members (well one member in particular) that definitely preached that 20% was āeasyā and that any one should be able to get that discount. I reached out to several and only one was able to get in the ballpark. That is likely irresponsible advice to preach as we all know there are a lot of variables that go into it.
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Well said. You donāt normally see the same discounts on Audis as on BMWs. When I leased my A4 2 years, a GSM at one of the premier Audi dealerships in the Boston area told me Audis were not distressed merchandise after I asked for more than 13% off. I āsettledā on nearly 14% pre-rebates with another dealer. I took the deal since it was the best I was going to get.
Yeah, but I wrote it, not him! The market is also a little different now.
Yesterday, I was (we were) asked for 13% off a custom order X3 M40i and the customer got pissed when a newly-in-stock one was less than that. He said he would go where he āknew he could get 12%.ā That car is low enough in stock as it is, let alone optioned the way he wanted. Canāt please 'em all.
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Maybe heāll beg for your forgiveness when he realizes he canāt.
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It wonāt deter everyone, but you still should make it clear in your every offer
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Should we close the trophy garage then? 
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Iāve said it before - Trophy Garage is NOT for unicorns or unicorn-like creatures. It is open to any lease deals by members.
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I was reading a post where someone signed a ādecentā deal on a new car, but they still needed that validation. Told the person there was no need for me to review their signed deal.
Are some folks here ego tripping now?
This was very hard to read. May as well have asked for a free car.
This is honestly the greater mental program I see some folks have. The expectation that they should be given something for nothing or trying to live outside their means.
Whatās sad is that they were getting offers for loaded compact crossovers probably with MSRPs close to 50k or more in the mid 400s which would have been a solid deal with no money down and over 24 months.
They were so clueless as to how leasing works that they missed the mark entirely.
Iām quite new here but I would like to pinch in my thoughts. I am in no way an expert as I am currently in the market for my first car, actually have been for 3-4 weeks now but I believe the term āunicornā deal is over exaggerated here.
I am basing my POV solely on my personal experiences of going through dozens of dealers/leasers and my friend with experience in the car industry as well as both purchasing and leasing of over 10+ cars for his family at āunicorn dealsā.
When I hear or see these āunicornā term used for deals, it quite saddens me because brokers seem like it is impossible even when it really isnāt. Iām also not basing this on what iām looking for or my personal offers.
Now, for my personal searches, yes, more of less, itās a extreme far reach and most of the time or what I am personally looking for, isnāt happening anytime soon, based on from what I am getting which is why I have increased my price in mind that iām looking to throw down. If that isnāt working, whats next? My budget will go up again or iāll look into something else.
The main problem is that members here like myself, are absolutely clueless about how everything works and just see that brokers have a better deal off the back than what they negotiated by far themselves but if you know your stuff (my experienced friend), you can easily get as good of a deal and better. Only thing is TIME=MONEY.
The last thing which I absolutely donāt understand is why many brokers are posting the absolutely best price possible instead of the realistic price, how many people actually qualify for VPP? Are trying to put MSD? Selectively qualify for other rebates?
There are many ways for a better deal to pop up or a better than proposed deal than from brokers but many brokers seem to take it to the heart and will argue they absolutely have the best possible deal and donāt believe others.
Brokers exist for a reason so lets be real, everyone is trying to save or earn some which is absolutely fine and they deserve to be paid for their time most definitely but donāt be that other salesmen.
I see many have posted prices automatically with VPP/MSD/INCENTIVES that many donāt qualify. The first time I saw this forum, I thought maybe people got hookups, discounts or the normally person canāt get themselves.
Itās definitely a good savings for the regular and āstealā or for someone that wants to save time but for someone that is not needing something right away and/or did their homework, I donāt see much of these broker deals as anything better than something you can get yourself.
I apologize if I offend anyone and hope no one takes it to the heart but thatās just my 2 centās which is meaningless here as I am new all around. Absolutely in no way mean to be āthatā person.
TLDR - Most are Good-Great quick straight foward deals but definitely not the best around
The problem is that new people come on, see these āunicornā deals, and think theyāre readily available. They then go to the brokers and try to push for those deals like theyāre normal.
āUnicornā deals are generally a result of all the stars aligning. A combination of a customer that qualifies for everything possible with a dealer that is highly motivated to go much deeper on a discount (usually trying to hit a volume bonus that makes up for the hit on the single car). Theyāre numbers that may be possible in those rare situations, but are not common.
People who are ignorant to the details, then go to the brokers and say āhey, so and so got 25% off, why canāt you get me 27% off?ā when a very aggressive deal is 20%.
I have seen brokers say that certain numbers are impossible, that are then achieved. They probably would be better off saying that certain numbers are highly improbable instead. The problem, however, is that for the uninformed, they see highly improbable and instead read totally normal, a minimum of what should be expected.
Broker deals should be evaluated like any other. Iāve worked with brokers on deals that I simply could not match myself, despite a lot of effort. Iāve had the exact same broker quote a price on a different vehicle that I was able to beat by a good amount. They got business on one of those deals and didnāt on the other. No harm, no foul.
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I am going to focus on brokers selling BMWs, since I have been following pricing on 2019 and 2020 models. A lot of brokers have a spreadsheet that shows you a breakdown of the deal they are offering such as:
- Pre-incentive discount (% off MSRP)
- Monthly payment
- Incentives (I do agree that most deals include BMW loyalty, but if you currently have a car you qualify for conquest)
- MSDs (Not all brokers include MSDs in their deals)
A few points I want to make. Some folks on LH are only concerned about getting the lowest payment possible on a car. Since most brokers provide a link the LH calculator, you can structure your deal whichever way you want it. Most BMW deals on LH are for 10k miles per year, so if you need 12k or 15k miles, you can structure it that way.
Another thing some newbies seem to overlook is that brokers have relationships with dealers and hence are able to pass along amazing deals on certain cars. For example, there were 2019 loaners advertised for close to 20% off before rebates. Not sure if you could just walk into a dealership and get that same discount, without putting in any work.
You are right about something though, time = money.
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I really donāt think brokers are trying to say theyāre the only ones who can achieve great deals.
I believe itās all about the convenience factor. As you pointed out, time = money.
For me, I absolutely hate raking the leaves every fall. I do all of my own planting, seeding, fertilizing, mowing, irrigation (OK I just set the sprinklers), and itās incredibly peaceful. But, I hate to rake leaves.
So, while I could do it, and spend 7-8 hours being miserable, Iād rather pay someone $400 and be done with it.
Thatās the type of analogy I use when brokering. As a broker, of course I understand others can grind and put the time in, and achieve equal or better results. However, itās the speed and convenience at which itās done that is the real value add. Itās opening up great deals to folks in markets where dealers are not competitive.
Some people love the hunt and donāt mind spending the time. Some people (sickos really) like to rake leaves.
Iāve personally shipped cars as far as New Mexico and Washington state. Without posted broker deals, it would be really challenging for folks in those tough markets to achieve great deals in many cases.
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Oh, definitely, I totally agree with all of you and would personally go with a broker myself to save the time ā¦ Totally worth it and Win win for both in most cases. Just to my misunderstanding, when I joined, probably speaking on behalf of majority ānewbiesā, came in thinking that you guys have more than and some sorta dealer connection or discount or what not that the norms can not get through lots of selling of cars from referrals or what not.
I mean it is sorta true since I see deals for loaners and other type semi new vehicles with a extra remarkable discount?
Most brokers have pre-established relationships with dealers that allow them to quickly get down to very aggressive deals. Basically cuts past much of the back and forth.
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After been on this forum for 2+ months, I have been exposed to a wealth of information. My advice to all newbies is not to be that GUY. What do I mean? Know what information is required before posting a deal proposal. Donāt be that GUY/GAL. Saying you are a newbie is a cop out. Read leasing 101 at least twice. TRUST ME.
On a side note - I might get some pushback by saying this, but I have noticed more comments from other LH members (not from trusted hackers) that do not seem to offer valuable feedback.
I get it that we are all entitled to an opinion. Instead of dumping on someoneās else deal proposal, why not help set up real expectation by providing ACTIONABLE feedback.
There is a thread from a newbie who is looking to roll in negative equity into a new lease. He has a growing family and hence is looking for a bigger car, but given their financial situation, I suggested they refinance their 14% car loan. I hate to see folks get into DEBT for a car they donāt need.
End of rant.
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