2024 Buick Envision Preferred Demo Lease...decent deal or is the dealer holding back?

Vehicle: 2024 Buick Envision Preferred 12K/24

First time potentially leasing a demo but dealer said this is the best way to get the lease price down.

MSRP: $39,640
Discounts: $6840 (EE pricing, demo discount, conquest discount)
Selling price: $32,800
Doc/Lic fee: $265

Cash down: $900 (first payment, tax, title)
Amount applied upfront: $740.49 (advanced payment + upfront charges)
Total Cap Cost Reduction: $1409.51
Net Cap Cost: $32,012.49

Term: 24mo
Residual: .71 (have seen this at .72 on previous deals workup they sent.
MF: .00240 (5.76%)
Advanced payment: $323.88
Upfront charges: $416.61

Dealer is paying off $622 from previous lease and assured me that it is not built anywhere into the price but I am still skeptical about that

So the deal is $900 due at delivery / $323.88 per month (tax included). This is a demo Buick Envision Preferred w/ Conv Package. ~3000 miles on the demo. Never leased a demo before and something seems off on this one, I’ve tried plugging all the numbers into the leasehackr calculator and can’t get the same numbers dealer is showing. It is also weird the dealer is changing the residual rates between deals. We started at $500+ for a new vehicle lease and are now down to $323 for a demo. I

Last question, I’ve always heard if you can lease the vehicle for 1% or less of the MSRP you are getting a good deal. Is that actually true? I’ve leased several vehicles before following that rule so just wondering if there is a better gauge to use.

The whole 1% thing never has and never will be a useful way of telling if something is a good deal. The greatest disservice this website has done is propagate that in the past. It doesnt hold up to the most basic of scrutiny.

There are vehicles where 1% would be overpaying by thousands and vehicles where 1% is impossible. Sometimes that’s the same vehicle where only the customer is the difference. Forget you ever heard it.

The best place to start here is by establishing a target deal for a new envision, and then using that for a basis of comparison when looking at a loaner.

Thanks for the info on the 1%. I’ll pretend like I never heard it :grinning:

Regarding a deal on a non-demo vehicle, I received a quote for $491 12K/24 from a different dealer, I don’t have the details on residual rate or MF.

I feel that $323 is a pretty good deal but I’m not sure if it truly is and want to confirm with the LH community.

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You need to determine a target deal independent of talking to dealers.

Welcome.

Can you post a link to the calculator?

I don’t think we see a lot of Buick deals here, period, let alone for a specific model (and a loaner, at that). There might not be a ton of data. Have you tried looking at Buick-specific forums to see if there’s more data there?

If the dealer is being honest w/ the numbers, $900 DAS and $324/mo for what should be a perfectly pleasant ICE SUV seems like a decent deal nowadays.

No and no.

Don’t waste time trying to decipher a dealer’s worksheet or chasing after them. Otherwise, you’re allowing them to control the deal. They often omit a lot of relevant detail such as money factor, monthly base payment, monthly contractual payment, fees not itemized and even make mistakes. You need to rely on credible outside sources (e.g., LH marketplace and signed deals, Edmunds, etc.). Do your own research and establish a reasonable selling price in your market. Be sure to get a copy of the factory window sticker. Check for non-factory add-ons or dealer-installed options. And, if possible, eliminate those you don’t need or want. Get a list of all customer and dealer rebates/incentives including VIN#-specific discounts/incentives, if any. And, yes, the dealer has such a list.

The only thing useful about dealer lease worksheets is the input data (bolded below). All data should be vetted such as acquisition fee, doc fee (regulated by some states), cost of money (e.g., money factor), gov fees, residual, rebates/incentives, sales tax rate, etc. Make sure the residual matches the term and annual mileage requirement. Check available tax credits/incentives via the fund provider who may cover taxes or, at minimum, may assess a lower sales tax rate to energize sales for some models.

Organize all relevant data in tabular format like those below with the goal of creating a lease proposal that reflects your target deal. The idea is to create your own target deal (proposal), not replicate the dealer’s deal.

The non-disclosed 357 fee makes no sense. Rebates are usually treated in one of two ways: (1) Compute how rebates will be allocated. Rebates are often used to cover lease inception fees with any remaining balance used as a CCR, or (2) Use the entire rebate as a CCR. Referencing option (1), I’ll spare you these calculations unless you would like to see how they’re done by sending me a PM.

Next, perform monthly payment calculations like those shown below.

Base Pay = .00240 x (32012.49 + 28144.40) + (32012.49 - 28144.40)/24 = 305.55

Contractual Pay = 1.06 x 305.55 = 323.88

Now, table all lease inception fees and how they are to be paid. Depending upon how the CCR is calculated (there are several different formulas), will determine the amount due at delivery (signing).

The CCR be calculated so that DAS = 0. As a side note, I would not capitalize non-taxable fees such as taxes and gov. fees. In those states the tax the individual payment streams, you’ll pay tax on capped non-taxable fees. As such, I would pay those at lease inception.

Observe that the 2150 rebate exactly covers the CCR as well as the lease inception fees including 1st payment. So, the 2150 rebate is comprised of two components: (1) the 1409.51 CCR and the 740.49 used to pay all lease inception fees. I have no idea what the 416.61 covers. I’m betting it likely includes a DMV fee and tax (84.57) on the CCR.

Bottom line: Zero drive-off fees followed by 23 monthly payments of 323.88 each.

Commentary

I don’t believe there is any need to pay 900 upfront.

It’s very foolish and nonproductive to waste hours sitting in a dealership negotiating. This can be a huge distraction. You need time to think things through and formulate questions within the privacy of your own home. This leads me to suggest…

Craft a lease proposal (example below) and email it to the sales manager (SM), not a floor salesperson as they’re often order takers and lack knowledge. All numbers should be accurate otherwise, you’ll lose credibility. Negotiate via phone/email. Once an agreement is reached, ask the dealer for a review copy of the lease agreement and all contract addenda BEFORE you go to the dealer and sign. Moreover, it’s helpful to know the terms and conditions of the lease contract such as early termination liability criteria and purchase option criteria as well as lease amortization methodology and excess wear/tear criteria. If all is as agreed, tell the SM that you’ll come in to sign right away. You don’t want any surprises or dealer excuses like …. Oh, we made a mistake. That’s unacceptable and shouldn’t be tolerated.

If the dealer isn’t transparent or is uncooperative or showing signs of incompetence, WALK AWAY AND MOVE ON!

Leasing is time-consuming and requires a good deal of study and attention to detail. If you don’t have the time to commit, perhaps your best alternative is a good broker. There are some outstanding brokers on this website. However, if you’re willing to commit your time and resources, always control the deal. That can only be achieved with education which breeds confidence and increases the likelihood of success.

??? Let me know.

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In some cases I’ve seen leases where the bank has upped the residual value. Is it best to just let the dealer see if it can be done when you send them an offer of $X/month, $Y DAS, or is it something that can be mentioned in an offer you make to them?

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1st payment and advanced payment are one and the same. Did you write this or, did the dealer?

What is the DEALER discount, if any? This doesn’t look good to me.

I would get an itemization of the 900, 357, and the 416.61. Something just isn’t making sense.

This should be done before you send the dealer an offer. All hard data must be vetted before any offer is made IMO. At least, that’s what I do.

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Best guess is that’s a residual adjustment for the mileage on the vehicle. I believe GMF charges 10 cents per mile on a demo and that’s supposed to be subtracted from the residual.

The bank is already upping the residual value. The standard program has a 59% RV and the Supported program is 71%. Both of those figures are probably very optimistic for a used Buick Envision 24 months from now.

Nope. Can’t be. The 357 is a capped fee and would have the effect of lowering the RV. That is clearly inappropriate. The RF = 71%. RV = 71% x MSRP = 28144.40 which is used to compute the base payment. So, there is no doubt that the dealer used 28144.40 as the RV.

Thank you for such a detailed response. I am including a screenshot of the calculator the dealer sent me. He has been pretty transparent (by sharing screenshots of the calculator and showing MF and residuals) unlike many other dealers I’ve talked to. In my eyes he is “laying out his cards” to show he isn’t hiding anything BUT that doesn’t mean he is sneaking a fee in somewhere that I am unable to decipher. I am glad I posted here to dissect the deal.

To be transparent we have leased 2 vehicles from him before and his pricing has always beat other dealers. This would be our first demo/loaner vehicle, I am not sure it is worth it but I know with GM EE pricing they can’t budge on the numbers very much (for new) but when you have a demo/loaner there is more negotiating plus they want to clear them off their lot.

I am not in a rush for the vehicle either, our current vehicle isn’t due back until late December and is well under on miles. I have asked several dealers if there is any equity in our current vehicle and they have all confirmed there is no equity. Only reason we are seriously considering this is because it is close to our current payment and it is a much nicer vehicle.

To answer some of your questions:

  1. I am unsure what the $357 and $416.61, I will ask and post back with the response.
  2. In MI, I know you have to pay taxes on the rebates which should just be $75 ($1250 x .06)
  3. I told him I did not want to put anything down other than tax, title, and first month and this is all via email correspondence. I refuse to spend time in a dealership playing the numbers game.
  4. Regarding crafting a lease proposal, I am aware I can get those #'s from Edmunds (and will post there to ask) but are those a fixed rate that cannot be tweaked? Do all Buick dealers have to use the same rate? Why is this dealer changing residual rates from .72 to .71 between negotiations?

Cash down: $900 (first payment, tax, title)
Amount applied upfront: $740.49 (advanced payment + upfront charges)

I wrote this because at first when I wrote out the deal I didn’t know what the advanced payment and upfront charges meant and then looking it I was able to see that if you add those two together it gives you the amount applied upfront. Same thing for the cash down I wrote that as well because I only wanted to put down tax, title and first month payment.

Discounts: $6840 (EE pricing, demo discount, conquest discount)
What is the DEALER discount, if any? This doesn’t look good to me.

I am unsure of this. I can get a breakdown of this as well. I think I misspoke when I said the conquest discount was included in there. I think this is just EE pricing (which is fixed) and a demo discount on top of that.

Edit, I found what the EE discount is from another worksheet that another dealer sent me. $3,018 is the discount for EE, meaning they are providing a $3,822 discount for the demo, I will still double check that # with the dealer tho

  1. I am going to request a breakdown of $900, $357, $416.61 and the discount of $6840.

  2. From what you can gather from the calculator, does it look like the $622 (prior lease balance) is being built into the deal at all. He said the dealership is just taking care of it. I know they more than likely will purchase our vehicle from GMF and put it on their used lot and make a few thousand on it.

  3. I think you bringing up some of those odd fees is why I was having a hard time getting the numbers to match on the LH calculator.

Thank you for your super detailed response. :sunglasses:

@paranoidgarliclover posted screenshot of calc from dealer.

@mllcb42 2024 Buick Envision Preferred Demo Lease...decent deal or is the dealer holding back? - #4 by mllcb42 Thanks, I plan to figure out how to compose a target deal with solid numbers to go back to the dealers with.

Of course they’re going to say there is no equity. Suggest you get a quote from Carvana and check other sources. Again, you need to do some research. I’m betting you have equity especially if you have low mileage. This leads me to your question…

Yup. Look at the first column of the second dealer’s WS “prior lease balance” … 622.

Gross Cap = 32800 + 622 = 33422

I assume that the two WS you posted are from the same dealer.

One more thing… forget the calculator. Recommend that you do the calculations manually. Not knowing how the calcs are done is the kiss of death. If the dealer asks how you arrived at a payment, are you going to tell them the calculator did it? They’ll pound on you like you’re their worst enemy. Remember, dealers are NOT your friend no matter how friendly they appear and regardless of the kinds of deals you received in the past.

Good luck!

EDIT:

The lease rate (MF) disclosed by Edmunds is the buy rate. It is a baseline rate. To qualify, you must have excellent credit. The dealer can mark it up. The residual factors are set by the fund provider. The dealer cannot change them for any given term and mileage requirement. I can’t say why the dealer is changing the RF’s from .71 to .72. It should not change as it is determined by GMF.

Doing some quick number checking before emailing the dealer. Btw I am working with the sales manager not a salesman.

$622 (remaining lease payments) minus $265 (doc and license fee) = $357. Does this mean the dealer is charging me for part of remaining lease payments but not the doc/license fee?

Shouldn’t gross cap really be 32,800+265 = $33,065?

A few ore things…

What does the 622 represent? Remaining lease payments? If

Then, why are they using it as a capitalized cost in their WS? That means you’re paying it. So, they told you something that just isn’t true. lied.

Looking at the WS, when I see Amount Applied Upfront = 740.49 and Total Cap Reduction = 1409.51, I’m seeing a total of 2150 which tells me it’s a rebate. Nowhere in the WS do I see 740.49 applied to reduce the lease inception fees. What I see is 1250 being applied to reduce these fees plus an additional contribution of 900 from you to reduce these inception fees. 900 + 1250 = 2150. It seems to me that you’re only getting part of the rebate (1250) instead of the entire 2150. Another way to look at it is that you’re paying 900 toward the 1409.51 CCR.

To reiterate, something is very wrong. I would definitely delete the 457 fee in my first post and question the 416.61. The 900 is a non-starter for me as I did not include it in my original post.

No, the dealer is charging you the entire 622. Look at the dealer WS. The boxes for the doc fee and license fee (first column) are checked. This means you’re paying these fees upfront and is likely included in the 416.61.

Nope. See above.

Gross cap = 332800 + 622 = 33422

Tell the dealer to keep his promise and cover the 622. I’m sure he has a lot of room as the dealer discount can likely be improved.

Lease Inception Fees…

1st pay 323.88
Upfront Charge 416.61
CCR 1409.51
TOTAL 2150.00
Rebate Credit 2150.00
Amount Due 0.00

Best to double check the rebate. Use Edmunds a few other dealers. KIt sure looks like 2150 to me.

How did you come across the Envision as your target? I think the first thing to understand about leasing is picking the right target in the first place.

No, that’s easily the worst myth propagated about leasing. Check Signed Deals & Tips to see that nobody seasoned here is following that nonsense.

I’ve emailed the dealer to ask about the charges.

I expect him to try and call me to fluster me over the phone with his explanation. While I know everyone out there has to make a living, I want to make sure he is living up to his promise of taking care of the payments and not sneaking in any fees.

I will say that this dealer is not pushy at all and does not add anything to the vehicle (vin etching, pin stripping, detailing fee, etc) which other dealers in this area do ALL the time.

I am still confused on the gross cap fee. If the deal didn’t include anything extra shouldn’t the gross cap cost be selling price (32800) + doc/license fee (265) = 33,065? Or am I missing something?