Returning a low mileage 2016 BMW 535ix on a 36-month lease so loyalty is applied to the numbers below among other incentives.
Got a quote for a 2019 BMW 540ix. Going for an off-loaner (<5K miles) to keep the monthly down. The car has M sports package and premium package 2 in addition to a list options including head-up display, etc.
Negotiated the dealer down. Here are the final numbers:
MSRP: $68,850
Discount: $11,950
Sale price: $56,900
36-month lease, 10K miles/year
Down payment: $2,500
MSD: $4,200 (full 7 months)
Monthly: $599 (including tax)
Full drive-off: $6,700 (no other charges, taxes or fees other than down payment + MSD)
Is this a good deal or is there still room to move? If there is room, what should I be asking for? Really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance!
Seems pretty bad especially with $2,500 down… is that for fees and stuff or actual cap cost reduction? Also, do you know the break down of the incentives in your area? I believe it’s around $2K lease cash and $2K loyalty, so they are discounting it around 10%.
How many miles are on it? If it’s close to 5K, it’s impacting the price/residual by around $1,100 so would push for a bigger discount
You also need to find out the MF to ensure it’s not being marked up before the MSDs are applied.
You should be able to get a much better discount on a ‘18… any reason you prefer a 2019?
Their were ads for 2018 5 series as low as $400/month.
Thanks very much for the reply. I have asked for the full sheet to find out the answers to your questions (e.g. down payment goes to fees vs. cap reduction, rebate breakdown, MF, etc.) and to be able to calculate what % they’re actually discounting this (used) car. Will update when I get it.
Got a better offer for brand-new 2019 530 w/ 2K down at $533/month (with MSD again), but I realize that’s a totally different engine and the cap cost there is <50K (58,285 MSRP - 3,500 rebates - 7,487 discount = 47,298 cap cost).
The loaner has just under 5K miles on it. They’re not loaning it anymore so that they can still lease it.
I’m in Massachusetts.
No reason to prefer a 2019. Just couldn’t find a 2018 loaner. I telecommute a large % of the time and we have another car for longer trips so the BMW got really low mileage. The new car will likely also get very low mileage, so I can easily go for a 2018 loaner, a demo or anything else that can be leased. Just can’t justify paying a higher monthly (was hoping <$500 like you said) for such little use – we’re probably talking 20K miles in next 3 years just driving around town. I saw those marketplace ads as well for 540 loaners in the 400s a month but they appear to have expired.
Got it… oddly, unless it’s heavily discounted, you don’t always get the best deal on a loaner because of the mileage penalty and lack of BMW CCA rebate so suggest you open your search to new and loaners. Most non LH people think they are getting a “deal” when they see a loaner discounted double digits, so some dealers don’t need to discount a lot to move it.
You have a great broker in your neck of the woods with @Bostoncarconcierge who even has a NEW 5 series posted for $440/month. Jump all over it!
I’d be happy to help if you like. Been knee deep in BMW deals these last two weeks so we could chat and if I can add value, great. If not, that’s ok too!
You should have at least $4000 in rebates ($2000 lease cash and $2000 loyalty). If you put that into the calculator your discount is a little under $10,000 before rebates, not $11,950, so maybe the MF is marked up. If you got it down to closer to $550/month including taxes with similar DAS, that would be a pretty good deal.
Reply to slimnj and Britten440. Thanks for the comments. Here are the numbers they gave me when I asked for the detail on the 2019 540 off-loaner:
$925 acquisition fee
$550 plates reg title
First month payment are all in the $2,500 down
Money factor 00142 (with MSD)
Residual 60%
MSRP $68,850
Sale price using $4,000 rebates with loyalty is $56,000
3 year 10,000 miles a year
$6,700 total down (including 4200 MSD for 7 months)
$599 monthly (including tax)
Lease runs off of MSRP
By my calculations, the discount is about 15%. Do you guys still think this is a bad deal or are we in the ballpark? If ballpark, where would the wiggle room be and what else should I ask for?
I have done business with this dealer before, they are reputable. Dealer continues to insist vehemently that this is a smoking deal.
The alternative I have (different dealer) is 530e (any issues with small gas tank if not using electric/battery?). This is a 2018 off-loaner, 4K miles.
MSRP $60,020
$2K down, all in (first month, plate, etc.) so $2K is the entire drive-off
$505/month (including tax), no MSD.
Your number still don’t make sense… if it’s $56k selling price with $4K in incentives, it’s closer to 13% dealer discount. You are losing close to 2% on the mileage penalty. 10-11% discount is easily attainable on a new 5 series plus you get the BMW CCA rebate. See the calculator below - am I missing something?
Also, why are you opposed to using broker? I use a broker and recommend them to friends all the time even though I know the numbers. Based on what you are coming back with, I’m sure they could earn the few hundred fee back several times over.
So you are at 12.8% off MSRP but they are using the base money factor. Last month I leased at 540 in NJ and got 14.5% off MSRP which is not great but it had the color and options I wanted. I could have gotten more off one with white exterior. I would think you should be able to get at least another $1000 or so off the selling price, which should lower payment about $30/month.
And as Britten440 says if you could get over 10% off on a new 540, you wouldn’t be paying much more for a new one.
Got them down to $575/mo with tax, $2,500 drive-off all in incl. first month, no MSD. That’s basically another 2K+ off between $30 down on monthly + 7 months MSD removed so the sales price is just under 55K off almost 69K MSRP. Spoke to a friend who is a dealer and he says it’s a good deal now. Any more thoughts?
Did you get an actual deal sheet to confirm the rest of the numbers? You don’t know the mileage/mileage penalty or how they are applying it to the deal. It’s either a lower RV (Not 60%) or higher sale price. Does $2,500 cover all taxes including rebates, doc fee, DMV and acquisition?
Monthly payment is the output of all the other factors you need to know. I have you closer to $600/month with $2,500 based on a $54,750 sale price with rebates but don’t know all the details.
If your buddy says it’s a good deal, are you just looking for confirmation here?
Waiting for the deal sheet - hopefully this evening.
Yes, $2,500 covers everything. Plate, title, fees, taxes, first payment. All-in.
Yes, looking for confirmation b/c my dealer buddy is in another state and my understanding is that the numbers can be slightly different and no one knows everything.
Dealer is telling me they’re “losing” $500 to get down to $575. They want the very low mileage car I’m returning.
Basically, I don’t need to know every gruesome detail and every “not exactly true” thing they might be telling me. I’d love some confirmation that we’re in the ballpark. I won’t post a link here but the car is on their site, got the VIN number, confirmed MSRP, etc. Not trying to squeeze the last penny out of anyone. Time is worth more than that to me. Simply would like to know that this is now a good deal and I’m not leaving thousands on the table. Thank you!
Strange that every dealer is either losing or not making money on most deal but they seem to stay in business .
The car ad is not useful rather just need MSRP, selling price, rebates, applied MF, residual with mileage penalty, and all the fees outlined. Only way people can tell you if you are leaving money on the table or if they are padding numbers.
Explain the car he’s buying from you; like a lease buyout or trade-in? Do you have any positive equity in it? Could be another sales tactic since they are not buying it out unless there is money to be made and most BMWs are underwater at the end of a lease.
I think you have a good deal if you are at $575/mo with tax, $2,500 drive-off all in incl. first month and no MSD based on your MSRP. If it’s the car you want and the deal sheet checks out when you get, i think it’s reasonable to go ahead.
My only suggestion would be to do the 7 MSD if you have the cash to do it. It doesn’t cost the dealer anything. It would lower your monthly payment close to $40 and I personally don’t have a better way of making around 9% interest tax free for 3 years.
Thank you both.
Britten440 - yes, I also noticed that every time I lease a car, the dealer insists he’s losing money. It’s embarrassing, but I guess it’s something they’ve got to say. Why do I feel like I’m negotiating with a medieval rug merchant every time I lease a BMW?
MSRP is 68,850. MF is 00142. Rebates are 4K (including loyalty), residual is 60, all fees are included in 2500 drive-off but I do have a list somewhere. I do not have the final sales price. It used to be 56,900 before the last 2 rounds of negotiations. He’s asked me for a desired monthly payment to cut to chase and there was an impasse at 603/mo without MSD and basically he took another $30 (or 1K) off and that’s when he told me that they’re now losing money.
The car I’m returning is a leased 5.35 w/ extremely low mileage (telecommuting + other vehicles). I’m not buying the current car because of the steep drop in residual in years 4 and 5 - don’t want a depreciating asset. I don’t know what they’re going to do with it.
slimnj - yes, the exact same thing occurred to me, but it’s going to be awkward to get them to go down twice, finally to 600 with MSD, then to 600 without MSD, then 575 without MSD, and then when we have a deal, turn around and ask to bring it down even more by introducing the MSD again. I’ll do the awkward though. NP
The residual is NOT 60% because it’s not new… you need to know how many miles are on it to determine the actual RV since there is a mileage penalty for a loaner. If it’s 4,500 miles, that’s $1k more you are paying for the car
I’m trying to help you get all the details to replicate the deal in the calculator before pulling the trigger to give you peace of mind.
Check Carvana or VROOM to see what price they would give you for your current car since there is no point in giving them positive equity.
Alright. Talked to dealer again and have an image of the sheet.
MSRP: 68,850
Residual factor: 60% (Triple-checked. They say it’s 60% despite being a loaner with 4,300 miles on it)
Term: 36
Rate: 0.00177
Mis Charge: 1215.75
Residual: 40,094.25
Customer cash: 2,500 (all-in, so this equals drive-off)
Monthly payment: 567.94 without tax, 603.44 with tax
Cash sale price: 58,850
Acquisition fee: 925
Vehicle total: 59,775
Cap reduction: 1,262.94
Mnfg rebate: 4,000
Total CCR: 5,262.94
Total cap cost: 59,775
Total cap reduction: 5,262.94
Adj cap cost: 54,512.06
Now, he’s making the offer to keep the 2,500 the same and lower the monthly from 603.44 with tax to 575 with tax (whatever they need to do to the other numbers to accomplish this). 10K miles with no MSD.
A lot going on here and you should be happy you got all the numbers: the baseline residual is 60% for 36/10 5-series, but actual residual is 58.2% after the mileage penalty. Do the math yourself on the figures you provided.
They are including almost $1,300 in cap cost reduction, also known as a down payment which is shady; why not just discount the car $1,300 less?
Taking into account those 2, you true discount is at 11% discount, which you could get on a new 5 series. Also what’s the miscellaneous charge break out? DMV and Doc but maybe some unnecessary dealer add-ons?
Tell them 16% off before incentives with no cap cost reduction and baseline MF or walk.
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