LOL - good points about taxes and freeway system - joint performance.
Actually - I would tell you (per Einstein) that time is relative. Therefore unless you are using the carpool lane to pick up your relatives that you aren’t saving anything and certainly not saving your relatives.
Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but you have a LEASED car that is driven 2500 miles per month?
Yes! Amazing I know, but another benefit of the Hyundai Ioniq Electric Unlimited+ Subscription (a fancy title for their special Ioniq lease which so far is only available in California) is totally unrestricted, unlimited miles.
The unlimited mileage and the charging credit (they pay for our fuel) were the two primary reasons I leased the car for my daughter. The free electricity at her college sealed the deal for me. I have to say that the Ioniq Electric is an amazing car and we are very happy with it and it suits my daughter’s needs perfectly.
The one catch with the car is that they are NOT readily available. Many customers have been waiting six months to nine months or more. Hyundai totally underestimated the worldwide demand for the Ioniq Electric and have not been able to procure the batteries in a timely fashion. We lucked out and only waited for two weeks for ours.
I have a RAV4 EV, that is basically built off the gas car platform. Speaking strictly from a financial perspective, the gas version gets about 18mpg in rush hour traffic. At $2.75 a gallon, it would cost me about $8.25 for my daily commute of 54 miles. On the electric version, I can enter the setting to make it charge at 11 cents per kwh after 11PM. That would make the same 54 miles about $1.98 at 3kwh in rush hour. Let’s say I round that to $6 savings per day, over a period of a month I save an average of $180. Since I found the right deal, I was able to get the car for basically the same price as the gas one. How am I not saving money?
The fact that there is discussion on electric cars being more affordable on the long run means they are winning. A couple of years ago they where just fancy toys for those trying to show being environmental friendly. Now they are much more available and affordable. But the thing with EV is we are at the beginning of an era. The costs just keep dropping as the technology is adopted more.
Lies from the Article:
the generation and distribution of electricity is also much more expensive than the production and distribution of gasoline.
(first paragraph of his first argument)
WHAT? False. So false. That’s an outright false statement. Where’s the proof of that guy’s statement above?
As a former owner of a plug-in hybrid, I see a couple of benefits to them:
Heavy Federal subsidies of a product from which I actually benefit means I “realize” some return from my tax dollars
Even though the pollution from creating the electricity may be a zero sum game, you can move the pollution creation to the locations of the power plants and away from the metro areas where there is high vehicle density
Currently, work supplies free charging and rock star parking for anything that accepts a plug which means I dont get as wet during a rainstorm, I get to arrive/leave 5 minutes later to and from work and I don’t need to provide my own electricity to charge
Even if pollution is a zero sum game, it need not be. Point source emissions are much easier to control and regulate than tail pipe emissions.
Think about how many EVs the smog test of a standard power generating facility would cover versus smog tests for individual vehicles.
I vaguely remember some people complaining about cost and convenience when cell phones came on the market. They also thought those phones with a cord attached where far superior. Wonder if they are the same people whining about electric cars?
Plugit:
In spite of your petty insults, the points taken from the article are valid. Namely that operating costs for gasoline ICE and electric vehicles are similar and that all-in pollution for ICE and EV vehicles are similar.
Per the article, the fact-based case for EV’s is weak. The economics of EV’s sans the huge subsidies are weak.
I agree that the subsidies are a huge carrot, but at the same time, I think that they artificially help to elevate the price that manufacturers feel they can charge for the cars. So I do not agree from a policy standpoint that your conclusion and the conclusions of the article are true. I also think the article is biased and much of it is questionable.
I will agree that at this point in time ICE is better for some while Electric can be better for others. It depends on your needs and circumstances.
But we are at the very, very beginning of Electrics, while the ICE technology has enjoyed over a hundred years of research and feedback improvements.
I suspect that within 20 years, ICE cars will be few and far between and I believe that this will be because ICE cars will be unable to compete on any front. The electrics will have much superior range and cost of ownership, much lower maintenance costs and drastically lower all-in pollution profiles.
The excessive time required to charge will be solved likely with Super Capacitors in lew of batteries. Super Caps can be fully charged in ONE SECOND and while Lithium Ion batteries can only handle about 500 hundred recharge cycles before they die, Super Caps can be recharged millions of times. Imagine 1000 miles of range and the ability to recharge in one second.
Imagine the grid solutions and options when every home has a mobile and connected 250 kWh energy store.
It is also very likely induction charging from motorways will be in our future.
Electrics offer so much potential for improvements from so many different angels while ICE is very near the end of the road. ICE simply wastes too much efficiency in the form of radiated heat and there is no way to usefully recover that. It can never compete with the efficiency of electric drive. Not even now, and now is literally the beginning.
Yes similar to the traditional “Edison” bulb and the new CFL or LED bulbs that are thousands of times more efficient than the incandescent brothers that were 100 years+
Until then I will take pride in burning dinosaurs and plants out the tailpipes of my 400-707 HP cars. Bring it on electric cars…
False!
That statement above is false.
Here is the simplest case-in-point that doesn’t need any charts or numbers:
Do you generate your home’s daily power needs with a gas generator? No.
Do you know anyone that does this on a daily basis? No.
Why not? Because it’s too inefficient. 1. Inefficient use of your money and efforts. 2. Inefficiency also equals more waste and pollution. No charts needed. You and all of modern civilization is living proof.
An ICE is nowhere near the efficiency of a power plant at producing energy. An EV doesn’t produce energy, it uses energy created by power plants that are far better at creating energy than ICE cars can do with gasoline.
I disagree that automotive lithium ion batteries can only take 500 recharge cycles. I’ve done more than that with my '15 e-golf and don’t perceive any reduction in range.
It depends on the depth of discharge. Deep discharges to less than 10% state of charge will kill Lithium Ion cells in 500 cycles. Shallower discharges will extend the cycles several-fold. But that’s it. This is not news and it is not something one can agree or disagree with. It’s simply fact.
Graphene-based Super Caps, on the other hand, can handle discharging all the way to 0% state of charge millions of times. They can also hold a given charge for literally many years without leakage. Their performance is not affected by temperature the way that Li-ion cells are. They can fully charge in seconds and they can deliver the stored energy thousands of times faster than chemical cells without harm to the capacitor.
There are a number of reasons Super Caps are not currently used instead of Li-ion cells. Cost is the major one. Another is difficulty in load balancing. But these issues are solvable. In fact, one company has apparently already done so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n6SpR8RPh4
Also worth viewing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CDzrDjBTNU
Masterblaster:
I apologize if my lighthearted snark insulted you. I am convinced though that a decade or two from now we’ll all look back and wonder why we didn’t switch to evs sooner.
I’m well into my third lease of an ev and I can tell you there is no going back (Spark EV, Kia Soul EV, BMW I3 REX, Tesla 3 next?). Articles like the one we are discussing are completely missing the point. The hype isn’t about fuel economy or CO2 emissions. Its simply about a superior user experience. I was always happy to pay a premium on my leases to drive these evs because these cars offered so much more value over their comparable ICE models.
When it comes to operating costs, take it from somebody who has monitored charging costs of different ev’s over 5 years and thousands of miles driven. My fuel cost is on average one third of a comparable ICE, $0.04 vs $0.12. This is in high electricity cost Los Angeles ($0.186/KWh incl. 2nd tier surcharge, taxes and fees). My projected solar pv rate is $0.12 and will drop the charge cost to $0.026 / mile. The most efficient hybrid still cost $0.05/mile in fuel cost (EPA for Hyundai Ioniq Blue when new, who knows how this car does in real traffic or after a couple thousand miles).
I haven’t paid for oil changes and any other ICE related maintenance.
If you want to understand the hype I suggest you get behind the wheel of an ev and drive it for a week and see for yourself. If it doesn’t fit your driving needs just keep your ride and don’t worry about the hype around evs. Ice cars will be available for a while.
My Buick Fuel cost is around $.08/mi. I’m not willing top spend thousands on circuits and chargers to drop that. The economics for rooftop solar have been recently greatly reduced by SoCalEdison which now charges stiff monthly “access” fees, buys your solar electricity at wholesale(IIRC ~$0.02/kwh), and sells you any extra electricity at retail(~$014/kwh or more). Lone gone are the days of them buying your power at the same rate they sell it to you.
Nor have I, it’s all included in my 24 month Buick lease(s). Nor do I pay for tires/brakes or anything else. Cost-wise I think my last lease was un-beatable at just under $50/month.
I looked into buying/leasing a Nissan Leaf a year or two ago. It drove like many subcompact cars and I had no issues with it. Unless the lease prices come down even further and or the cost of installing a 240 volt charger circuit come down the price just wasn’t competitive. Charging at 110 volts wouldn’t work for my long commute. There were some other charge options but I wasn’t interested.
I may still be interested in buying an inexpensive used EV as a weekend toy. I can get one for around $5-7k depending on age and equipment and miles. But we have three cars right now. Getting another one isn’t a priority. I’ll make a decision as to what to do when my DW’s Buick lease ends next March.
It’s 2017 and there are still people that believe this myth that electric cars are no better than gas when it comes to pollution despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. 
Oh, and solar power is a thing that exists.
Virginia is using part of its Volkswagen emissions test-cheating settlement to pay for a statewide network of electric vehicle charging stations, and has chosen Los Angeles-based EVgo Services LLC as the lead contractor.
Have you seen the new VW Electric commercials yet…featuring a Chevy Bolt? 