In Florida they mark up tag and title all the time. They also add things like electronic filing fees, doc prep, dealer fees etc.
How do they get away with it? It’s called tag agency fees.
I imagine in other states this type of stuff is regulated, not down here.
Trucks are a different beast. I read somewhere that truck customers are accustomed to huge discounts. So the MSRP is inflated. How to get to 30% off?
Rebates
Dealer incentives
And MSRP added value discounts for certain packages selected
This is the deceptive part about truck pricing. Add over priced option and then get park of it back in added savings. Lol
Don’t forget to negotiate for your 30% in person:
“35k MSRP? i GiVe YoU 25 cAsH! 25 aLl CaSh!”
Then we reach my favorite car stories: when the Sales Manger tells you to GTFO! 
Hey @jeisensc Jeisen. Can you explain what you mean by negotiate price before incentives? I’m looking at a 48k MSRP Ram 1500. I went to edmunds and got the residual value on this trim at 36/15 at 46% with a MF of .00017.
The rep at edmunds also mentioned that the “total cash includes 8,750”. So are you saying these are the incentives? Theoretically I could negotiate the sales price down to 35k then get another 8,750 in bonus cash?
I went to the dealer yesterday and got the sales price down to 31k but they were manipulating the payment on me and trying to play games with a lease. At first the gentleman told me that they don’t discount off msrp on a lease, to which I told him that’s just not right. They then get the truck down to 31k but are still fudging the representation of the monthly payment. Thanks sir!
@mm453 Always negotiate a dealer discount before incentives are applied for a Ram at minimum i would wan’t a 10% dealer discount.
No because I can’t take your example seriously.
I don’t know (nor care tbh) which ram 1500 you are looking at, but TrueCar says (for me)
So here on Earth you negotiate 45,235 down to/below 42,403 (not 30% off) THEN you deduct the incentives.
You don’t just ask for the number without knowing the incentives or the dealer will start at msrp minus incentives. Plenty of “deals” posted here have been: MSRP - incentives with 0 discount.
Once you are negotiating discount with incentives together it just gets conflated.
Hi Jeisen,
Sorry but why cant you take my example serious? Here was the sales sheet put infront of me
This was a deal on a 2019 4x4 Warlock Ram 1500 quad cab. Please understand i am looking to just understand the process better from your standpoint. I’m certainly not trying to pull a number out of my (you know what 
) Thank you sir and i really appreciate your help/advice.
And i understand what you mean now by telling me to negotiate dealer discount before incentives.
And here is the Car on TrueCar (almost identical)
So on TrueCar this car is almost 20% off MSRP (this is before incentives). Couldn’t I theoretically negotiate 20% off MSRP as the dealer discount - so the 48k MSRP is now discounted to $39k, then i can use the $8,750 in incentives?
And the information from Edmunds:
36/15
.00017 and 46%
Total Cash of $8750 includes:
$1000 Chrysler Capital 2019 Bonus Cash 44CKB3 exp. 10/31/2019
$1500 West BC Lease Bonus Cash WELKJ exp. 10/31/2019
$2500 West 2019 Bonus Cash WECKA exp. 10/31/2019
$3750 2019 Lease Cash **LK1 (excl. Pacifica Hybrid) (CA-WE) exp. 10/31/2019
So there are all the numbers (which would have helped in the first place). Plug it into the calculator and post a link.
Do you think this is realistic? Also are the incentives taxed incentives or non-tax incentives? And in the dealers worksheet they sent me, do rebates = incentives? thanks very much Jeisen.
Closer to this (assuming your tax rate is 9%) at 36 months. (Edited: I had doc fee wrong AND they want $3k down, originally I had $0 DAS)
The payment on your deal sheet is 24 months so you need the residual from Edmunds for 24 months for this truck in your Zip. At 36 months with $0 DAS you should be around $345 plus tax.
It’s not accurate. They can quote you Tier 1 numbers assuming you are Tier 1, AND if your credit app comes back lower THEN the MF goes up (unless it’s so bad you aren’t approved).
(Edit) If they know their FICO v2/v8 or Auto Enhanced Equifax score, their finance manager should be able to tell you what tier and rate, but expect them to mark it up (eg if buy rate is 2% for Tier 1 and 3.5% for Tier 2, then expect then to hold 1-2 points meaning effective 4.5-5.5% on a Tier 2 lease). I’m pulling numbers out of the air, YMMV. The hesitation for them will be they can’t be sure this person will get approved and if so what tier until they run their credit app, so it’s a best guess that they don’t like to engage in.
Thanks Jeisen, one or two last follow up questions. I told the dealer i wanted 36 months 15k miles a year - the sales rep i was working with wasn’t listening to me or was trying to manipulate me. So you running the calculator at 36 months was correct!
How did they come up with 12k in incentives when Edmunds shows total cash of $8,750? And then if i wanted to negotiate further you are suggesting i focus on negotiating the dealer discount which you’ve currently input at 10% off? Once again, THANK YOU!
So you actually want 45.2% off MSRP including the incentives? Does that really sound realistic to you?
Realistically you should aim for the following, 15% off dealer discount plus incentives. The dealer may have gotten to 12k in rebates if they also including IDL bonus cash on that model using a 3rd party bank such as US Bank or Ally.
Ask them for a breakdown. I used the 12k number in my calculation
Yes. Start by telling them you aren’t paying for that tint. Get another dealer in the game on the same truck and see how low you can negotiate discount (that is the only haircut the dealer is taking).
This is why we recommend you focus on negotiating price less discounts FIRST, then you can confirm incentives/rebates off, then ask them to quote a lease. When I have my email confirming price and incentives I ask: can you quote me a lease payment assuming my credit is Tier 1? 36 months / 15k miles / $0 due at signing. I’ve had sales people confuse the lease terms between the first and second email, they get busy sometimes. Don’t have to be a jerk or belittle them but in the same way they walk you through their sales process, you walk them through your process and give them everything they need each step.
Hence my “here on Earth” line above. I get that OP is just trying to grok what is what. And now that’ve seen the deal sheet, I’ve never seen a Fantasy Monroney label but apparently that’s what RAM deals in. “A truck bed so big it can carry it’s own incentives in $1 bills” jfc 
They may have really high incentives, but 55% RV for 24 months is terrible. Wouldn’t be surprised if the MF is high too.
Hi Jon,
The way i look at is it if the MSRP is $48,475 and i can negotiate a dealer discount of 20% the sales price before incentives is $38,780. Then i take off $8,750 in incentives you get a sales price net of incentives of $30,030.
TrueCar shows average discount off MSRP of 20%. That was shown in a post above. Am I still being unrealistic here?
@jeisensc when you look at the TrueCar sale price “Market Average” is that before incentives?
Your calculator link shows you looking for a 27% discount before incentives.
Look at the fine print. TrueCar pricing usually includes financing incentives.
That’s not what I read from Jeisen earlier in post #21 When negotiating price off MSRP do you include TTL?
If you have time read through the following thread.
Trying to save you some time. 15% dealer discount is a realistic target number. Varies by region, there have been plenty of deals less and few deals 1-2% more… also these deals are based on purchases not leasing, some dealers are reluctant to do the same dealer discount for leasing even though it shouldn’t matter either way.
