Whats the game?

Hi All,

I have been working on getting a lease on IONIQ 5 SEL AWD, I managed to get one dealer (out of state) to agree and I go in and do the paperwork and walk out with the car. Next day they come back to ask me to redo the paperwork and pay higher amount. I disgree and the car goes back. I then work a deal through a referral here on LH and also its an out of state dealer and almost everything goes to the final stage (fill out credit app) and then it fell apart as their excuse was that they did not get the papers needed from Hyundai to do an out of state deal.

The game, I am thinking they are just using me as a place holder to get some deal done to show a transaction but infact they are pocketing some of the incentives and selling the car outright or doing something else with it. Is this a good assumption? If not, can anyone with more insights share your experience on what is going on? I have to think that its being done for the money but I dont know the exact transaction they are doing to get the money.


I think you are way over estimating the competency of a Hyundai sales person. They probably just screwed everything up really badly and it was cheaper to take the car back then to adjust the contract to keep the deal together (my guess is they had the wrong terms like the 24 month residual on a 36 month lease etc).

Not every dealer is setup for out of state leases and a newer salesperson might not realize that until you get to the finance department. This is my guess for the second scenario.


ok, maybe thats the case but I just thought 2 separate dealership in row it seems bit too coincidental.

Or they thought OP was going to bash their head in on the survey and for economic reasons it was better to shitcan the deal.

I’ve seen it happen.

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Can’t tell if you are being sarcastic…why would I bash their head on the survey when I am getting the deal the way i was asking for?

What was the higher amount based on? Did they have Maryland taxes correct the first time?

Most states don’t tax the selling price on a lease. So an out-of-state dealer may not have been aware of MD’s absurd lease tax.

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nope, they got the tax added correctly but dont know the reason for higher amount. I am suspecting that they found another buyer willing to pay more? The dealership were in VA and PA both neighoring so I am assuming they would have done this in the past…especially the one in VA which was in Northern VA

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If a customer gets exactly what they asked for they are often unhappy as they feel like they could have asked for more. Seen it happen dozens of times.

“Hi mr customer how can I help you?”
“I want this car, with this many miles, sign and drive for $500 a month!”
“Ok sounds good to me! Let’s get the paperwork started so you can take it home at that number”


My dude, you’ve been shopping for a IONIQ for like 8 months now. How have you missed out on one for so long? But now you’re conjuring some sort of conspiracy theory about how a Hyundai dealer is forging paperwork for an almost-complete sale to game the incentives from corporate?

I usually blame bad customer experiences on aggressive dealer tactics honed over decades to maximize their profits. But in this case, I think whatever you’re doing or whatever you’re expecting is the problem.

As thevolvoguy described above, the LH experience frequently discussed on this forum buck the normal industry sales flow. Getting a nice deal completed because you asked politely is a minute exception. When Keith’s ultra-smooth sales flow happens, of course some some buyers are thinking “when’s the other shoe going to drop kick me in the balls?” Because the normal car transaction sucks for most buyers.

Anyway, you have a ton of stuff working against you right now. Try to mix up you approach before you think the dealers are gaming incentives.

You passed on some wicked deals over the last 8 months. There were likely closer dealers to you that had attractive 2023 IONIQ’s that you passed on.

You’re an out of state buyer trying to do this yourself without broker help. Yeah you save a few bucks, but now you are experiencing the pain that could be averted by involving a person who does this type of transaction for a living.

You don’t have any convenient business LLC’s set up to allow for a smooth transaction. Some of the serial car buyers ( @djrabbi ) on LH can easily run vehicle registration through different states, making things easier for the dealer.

You’re trying to pay as little as possible so the dealer probably makes next to nothing on this transaction. As they say, your juice isn’t worth the squeeze.

You’re targeting a vehicle that is sold through dealerships that don’t employ the likes of a high-end SM or FM that work a lot of interstate volume. Maybe you should just abandon the IONIQ dream and get a car from @thevolvoguy.

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You go to the dealership sign the paperwork agree to their terms and walk out with the car only to have them call you back to increase the price or return the car…i dont think i am doing something wrong or expecting something wrong…its alright if you dont know the type of crap people do for money but it’d be nice to get some insights…i get that this forum is mostly driven for business so i was not expecting to get the details but thought i’d give it a try…

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There’s no way to game-ify the incentives like that, at least not at this level. The dealer would eventually get a chargeback from Hyundai asking to recoup the money + other “sanctions” if they pulled some shit like this.

While it’s unfortunate that two of your deals have kicked back, you haven’t answered what the higher amount was (difference) and why it was higher (cause). Start with that and we can give you theories.

If both dealerships had people looking for Ioniq’s like this, I doubt they’d be willing to do your deal in the first place.


There’s dealerships that add crazy add-ons and charge you stupid fees, but they aren’t stealing or trying to fraudulently claiming a couple thousand to lose out on hundreds of thousands + possible criminal charges. You’re thinking too deep on this. Find out why the first one was higher or what went wrong that they had to have you re-sign.

Did you try to work out anything with the dealer? I agree that you should pay what you signed the contract for, but did you try to workout to meet them in the middle (if it was reasonable)?

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Thanks for the kind words!

You hit it on the head. I’ve had the objection of “its too easy…” WTF lol


It’s too late for the first dealer but that is the question. OP needed to get more details to figure out what is happening. If this happened to me I would make a real stink about getting the updated numbers emailed to me before going to the dealer so I could make 100% sure I understood what was happening. If it’s not a credit issue there are only a few things it could be.

I don’t know if it’s possible but is there any chance dealership gave OP a deeper discount than they realized and wanted to unwind the deal. Everyone make mistakes sometimes. Is it possible the dealer just made a mistake and then used the resigning excuse to unwind deal?

I always counter them by at least $300-$500 (even if I’d take the deal at their offer) just so they don’t keep pushing. If you accept right away they will want more. I think the old saying about giving an inch and they take a mile (I can’t remember the exact saying) applies to this.

Well based on his username… he’s a desi… last time I wrote something my comment got flagged but rhymes with new

Main reason why I don’t do business with my own people. :thinking::thinking:

They wanted +$150/mo and the reason i was given was that they entered the number wrong or something but then how did their finance guy go through the deal and have us sign the paperwork and also take the car home. I mean I can see one person making the mistake but there are 2 and possible 3 people involved and none knows whats going on and how the numbers work? Maybe like you all said I am giving too much credit to people working at the dealership and maybe it was a mistake but the 2nd dealership kept on waiting for paperwork from hyundai something about how they need papers to pass it on to their 3rd party who does their out of state paperwork processing…mind you we wait almost 5-7 working days and then the month end/change over happened and I had to travel so couldnt follow up and they obviously sold the car to someone else or god knows what happened but the deposit was refunded before my trip.

I think you’re over-estimating the competency/quality of folks working at your average Hyundai dealership. I don’t know how far you had to travel for your initial purchase, but they probably don’t process many out of state deals.

Also consider that once someone that actually has to execute the sale discovered the mistake, the would email the other FM’s in the region. Easier to stop some dude in MD trying to get a cheap-azz IONIQ5 than keep watching dealers flounder on the paperwork.

Did you have an opportunity to see what number was entered wrong? depending on your month term, you’re talking ~$3500-5500 off. That sounds like it could be taxes or fees.

Regardless, why not pay a broker on here to get you a deal and be done with the headache? While it’s no guarantee, it’s almost more certain than trying to run out to a different state and find a deal.

Should definitely use a broker. No dealership with a brain is going to touch this. Customer has had bad experiences with the brand. This is either going to be a perfect survey and a customer advocate for life OR a terrible survey.

I wonder what Sales Manager has the stomach to flip that coin