What are the best sites to get invoice, holdback, and factory rebate information
invoice : edmunds, ebb, any other site?
holdback
factory rebates and incentives
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I use edmunds, autobytel, nadaguide, and whatever brands website.
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In addition to the aforementioned sites:
Costco auto will also give you some good info. I’ve even seen manufacturer to dealer incentives listed there too, which can be hard to find info on.
Edit: you don’t have to be a member to find that info!
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Where do you find invoice information on Costco Auto? As far as I can tell, this is a just referral website, but maybe I’m missing something.
Under new vehicle research. Enter the year, make, and model and the first thing that comes up is MSRP versus invoice.
Invoice is mostly irrelevant here.
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Thanks. I should have been clearer: Can you find the invoice for a car plus OEM equipment? This is essential because the margin on equipment can be as high as 12%, which is much higher than the margin on the base car, which can be as low as 4.5%. So, general “invoice” prices aren’t that helpful.
Yes. You can find invoice on Nadaguide based on zip code, colors, packages, and OEM equipment.
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Well, to have a “starting point” you need to know the invoice price, right? 
That’s right! And you don’t even need membership to view MSRP and invoice. Just click on “Build Vehicle”.
The information about hold-backs and other incentives to the dealer is confidential, obviously.
Not really. You’ll notice that most (almost all) of the deals here are negotiated to a pre-incentive percent off MSRP based on data from other deals. Invoice never really even enters the conversation
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When you start feeling price resistance during your negotiation you may hear a common dealer refrain: “Hey, let me show you my invoice. At your price I am below invoice.” Many buyers assume invoice equals dealer cost, more plugged in buyers mention the holdback as well. If a dealer is offering to show you their invoice, they are trying to put a floor below your offer price. Invoice is not a buyer’s friend.
Dealer cost structure is opaque - it’s difficult to figure out a dealer’s true inventory cost. Invoice, holdback, trunk money, advertising allowances, volume bogeys, etc. There are many moving parts to dealers cost - and the only pieces you can find easily on the internet are invoice and holdback. An aggressive buyers goal is to get as close to a dealer’s rock bottom price and still leave the dealer a satisfying profit. A dealers invoice plays a minor role in this pursuit.
As others have mentioned, pre-incentive selling price (at buy rate MF) is the metric leasehackrs value most in calculating a good/great deal. That’s why when folks post deals you will see a swarm of responses making sure the OP has clearly identified the pre-incentive discount. This is the metric the ninja hackrs file away to build up their database of possible deal points - for a specific local market, on a specific model and a specific point in time.
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That is terrible advice and you should know better based on your activity on this forum. Everything is dictated by market value, regardless of what the invoice is. There are cars where MSRP is a great deal, invoice is an okay deal, and $2000 below invoice is a bad deal. It all comes down the supply and demand plus the trunk money from manufacturers
As for this, there are lots of sites where you can get the invoice that are pretty accurate. Edmunds is a good start for both invoice and rebates. You won’t find any info for holdback, trunk money, or flagship money. That is all confidential and something dealers are not going to disclose willingly, plus it could vary from dealer to dealer depending on volume bonuses and market.
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I whole heartedly agree, deleted.
I guess this is more accurate?
Hold back from brand for brand is definitely different, JLR doesn’t do volume based, regional, etc. However, edmunds does sometimes reveal manu to dealer incentives like marketing allowance for Audi.
Also I spend too much time on here, you’re right 
.
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When I worked for Audi, anyone who had the programs could see all of the incentives that were not advertised. There were some “hidden” ones like aged inventory that were VIN specific.
And you do spend too much time here. You joined a year and a few months after I did and have 8 days read vs. 4 days. You should try to spend more time at the amusement park.
It’s closed till July. I’m an employee I could actually live in the park, I know security, grounds, and food service, I could camp out there if I had to.
I can’t right now, they are letting us pick schedules but staying closed till the park reopens (I work for the hotels).
Great points @824! You pretty much summarized it in a few words. The only thing I disagree with is this:
An aggressive buyer doesn’t give two 
about leaving the dealer a satisfying profit (actually, no buyer does). They do always say that, of couse - “I don’t want you to have to lose money” - but at the same time, the offers I get are less than invoice minus flagship minus trunk money minus “holdback” (which doesn’t exist in the BMW world) and at buy rate. They are true negative loser deals even after all the “secret dealership cash”. You gotta remember that dealers might have profit you can’t see but they also have expenses that no buyer ever considers. Someone’s gotta pay me, and the sales porters and the gas station bill (oh that’s a fat one) and so many other things that are involved.
Luckily, depending on the day that the dealership is having, they may still accept a net negative deal. This would usually mean they’re extremely slow and need the unit (like at 4-5pm with no car out yet) or extremely fat and can take the hit (like they’ve sold a couple nice juicy deals at MSRP)
Either way, the one thing I would add is this…no matter how knowledgeable you are and how much data you’ve gathered, the best deals are always a matter of timing and very quick action on the part of the customer when that opportunity presents itself.
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how can the rock bottom price be calculated
there are a lot of terms ; by invoice I mean what the dealer paid for the car.
rock bottom = Invoice + Destination - Holdback - RebatesAnd Incentives
then add 2-3% as a profit for the dealer as your purchase price
is it true that some cars don’t have holdback e.g. Audi, if that is the case do you remove holdback from the above equation to calculate bottom price
a no-brainer . even if you are leasing always negotiate the cost of the car , and then work out the monthly payment , apply MF etc
You will never know a dealer’s marginal cost. Maybe a huge volume bonus depends on selling X more units that day or that week.
Or maybe they are looking to maximize gross profit per unit because there are no volume bonuses.
It’s economics 101: supply and demand.
Also: Read what @BMW_Dave wrote above.