This may be better suited for off-ramp, not 100% sure
I’ve been looking at 2017-2020 F150s lately, and it seems like every single one I test drive has bad cam phasers.
For the uninitiated, the 2nd gen 3.5s had a design flaw with the cam phasers, they go bad and the motor makes a gnarly knocking noise on startup. The parts were redesigned eventually and supposedly the issue is fixed. The 2nd gen 3.5s are generally stout engines other than this.
My question is… is this an issue that doesn’t warrant a discount? It’s a $3,500 (or more) job to replace them. $1,000 in parts + 14 hours of book time. I’ve even test driven one that’s “Ford Blue Certified” that had bad cam phasers. I asked if replacement would be covered under warranty, and they just gave me the noncommittal “it’s a full bumper to bumper warranty” and then I asked “if it has a known issue that requires a $3,500 repair, how did it pass the inspection to become certified?” and silence, of course. My concern here is that Ford’s official position is “it’s just a noise, no need to replace them under warranty” even though there have been many documented cases where the cam phasers self destruct and cause major issues if not fixed for long enough.
Is this not as big of an issue as I’m making it? Are they just hoping they find a buyer who doesn’t notice, or doesn’t care? Does anyone have personal experience with the cam phasers from this year range of 3.5?
Personally I’d stay away from a 3.5, seem like once they get some miles on them they break. The 5.0 is suppose to be pretty bullet proof, or go the GM route but the Displacement on Demand should be avoided as well.
That’s what it’s starting to feel like. I was initially thinking if I could get a deal on a truck, I would just have my brother do the job, he’s a master tech for another brand and won’t charge me $150/hr. But seems like getting a good deal on the purchase because of it isn’t really on the table…
3.5L Raptor owner here. To my knowledge, they have fixed this issue with late 19+ models. Id push towards 21+ to ensure that you dont get one with that issue.
If youd like to take a shot at the 17-20, then make sure that 21B10 and 21N03 recalls were performed to have the updated cam phasers.
Supposedly Ford deemed the cam phaser issue non-threatening to performance or reliability (which I find hard to believe but I am not a mechanic). Seems like you have a similar stance on this + done your research. At the very least make sure the recalls were addressed which should alleviate any concerns with the noise. I wouldn’t expect any price adjustments from dealers as they can just direct you to recall work - but maybe if you went private party from a uneducated seller.
No. Perhaps the HO engine in the raptor is different, but I have personal experience with a 2019 that had one fail. My dad’s truck. I think he may have been like 1,xxx miles out of warranty, but it was covered by Ford. Perhaps under that customer satisfaction program they have (had?) to address the bad rep.
From what I can tell, they released the new part number in 2020. May come down to actual build dates unfortunately.
Don’t risk it. Ford made another 5.4 3V. Don’t risk your financial well-being on one. It is likely a bigger issue than you’re making it. If the vehicle has impending repairs worth 10-20% of its value, they can take a hike.
I don’t want to abuse his goodwill that much, lol.
The gist of it is that any parts that would experience extra wear due to the failure get replaced anyway during the job. Phasers, timing chains, guides, tensioner. It’s a lot of work to get far enough in to replace the phasers, so it doesn’t make sense to not do all the other stuff while you’re in there. I don’t think it’s a huge issue, assuming you don’t let them go long enough that they actually tear themselves apart. Unfortunately, the CSPs (not recalls) are all expired and I have yet to come across a single truck that has actually had them done, as far as I could tell. Since they aren’t recalls + the CSPs are expired, they don’t show up on Ford’s site. I’ve seen some trucks that had cam phasers replaced, but no indication of it being done under the CSPs with the updated part number.
The HO is no different than the normal 3.5s W/R/T cam phasers as far as I’m aware.
Lots of good thoughts. Maybe I should just buy a GM and deal with fixing the DOD/AFM stuff. Or buy a 2500 6.0 that doesn’t have DOD/AFM or emissions testing, lol.
