I just looked at Tesla and Porsche Germany websites for the data, couldn’t find a centralized WLTP ratings website on a quick Google search. Feel free to correct me if I missed something…
Here’s where I got the numbers:
I’d love to see side by side dyno plots, how they handle long days running at speed, etc
1 Like
Standard range has a 75kwh battery pack so not apples to apples comparison:
https://www.porsche.com/germany/models/taycan/taycan-models/
These are the links I have used…
Looks like the competition is ramping up…
2 Likes
There are some interesting insights in this poll between Tesla, GM, Ford and Rivian…
https://www.autolist.com/news-and-analysis/survey-electric-pickups-GM-ford-tesla-rivian
And the long range is 100kwh so it isn’t apples to apples either.
Really the point I was trying to make was that the wltp number is the same but the EPA is different, suggesting they behave differently depending on test conditions.
Taycan has a 93.4 kwh pack, isn’t it fair to say 100 kwh is closer to that number than 75 kwh? Or we can do a quick math and say if Model S gets 610 km off of 100kwh then in theory it should get 570 km out of a 93.4 kwh still beating the best Taycan number by about 30% in the measurement cycle that Taycan is potentially designed for. No matter how you slice it, Model S is significantly more efficient in any measurement cycle compared to the Taycan…
2 Likes
Yes, 93 is closer to 100.
The point I was still trying to make was that there is a huge difference in numbers between the EPA test and not in the wltp test.
1 Like
You clearly haven’t read anything I’ve said here.
I’ve read lots of them. As I’ve said many times: I test drove the Roadster before most people knew who Tesla was. I went to the VIP opening of the Tesla store in DC. I’ve driven everything but the X more than once. I’ve read lots and lots of reviews. I’m pretty familiar with the product. That isn’t what this thread is about: the product ceases to exist if the company that makes/sells/“services” it fails to exist.
Do you see how you might be coming off as a little Tesla-myopic?
I’m not here to make Tesla friends. I don’t (now or ever) own any $TSLA stock. I think the cars are interesting/innovative products, the rest are vaporware until they ship (Semi, Carrier, Roadster 2, etc), and that excludes Solar City (a bailout for Musk’s cousin and a jobs program for absolutely nobody). The technology you keep bringing up is currently only used by/sold to Tesla (since MB and Toyota partnerships ended) and all the IP is open sourced.
Tesla is the contemporary definition of “mismanagement” - I imagine you will be sad if your Tesla is bricked because Musk ran Tesla into the ground and whomever forces it into receivership turns off all of the telematics because they don’t want to pay the bill anymore? It’s not “too big to fail”, it’s not structurally significant, and it’s not the kind of business that any one company comes in and buys/rescues: it’s likely to be an incredibly messy divorce that doesn’t end with the Ex’s asking to keep their reservation for the first Model S as part of the divorce decree.
What if you are overestimating them?
Outselling isn’t always winning. It’s a good car. We’ll see how well it sells once the tax breaks dry up. The sales overseas were not good last quarter like they were here, and the early numbers haven’t been good either. I’m watching the leading indicators just like I imagine you are.
Of course. Not where it required so much CapEx to make, not where the company personally assumed so much liability to build it. Not where they were already so over-extended. And certainly not where there were the opposite of focused. And never where it was a combination of all these things.
1 Like
Tesla insurance is also going great
They ended up white labeling State Farm when they couldn’t pull off opening their own (the capital reserves req and the regulatory reporting is a nightmare for a startup). But you still have to notify states if you want your vanity brand instead on the white label’s, and now people are scrambling.
Excellent way to chip away at all that goodwill with the fan boys and girls. To what end?
1 Like
California dmv loves to pull this insurance bs. I have a motorcycle that for whatever reason, they just don’t want to accept the proof of insurance on, and every 6 months or so, they’ll send me notice that I don’t have insurance and they’re suspending my registration. the best part is, if your registration is suspended, CA dmv will not send you a registration renewal notice. They will, however, take you to collections if you fail to pay your registration renewal that they never sent you notice for.
Don’t be ridiculous… That’s not possible.
2 Likes
They are incredibly inefficient BUT I had a holiday miracle about 2 weeks ago: I went in August 31 and ordered the vintage plates for my new lease. Just a sequential number but they didn’t have any so they were supposed to mail them to me. Fast forward to the end of November when the temporary expired and I didn’t have them. Long phone calls and got hung up on before the Thanksgiving weekend so I messaged the DMV on Twitter: somebody sent me an email address (which I emailed), a person called me the next business day, and they overnighted my plates to me. So while there were many mistakes along the way, the resolution was beyond efficient.
It’s rare but Stockholm syndrome can be broken.
“LIDAR is totally unnecessary”, right?
Just as Mustangs thirst for human blood, Autopilot seems to crave first responder vehicles. It’s a miracle of technology it works at all, but BING BONG crash 
While all cars crash for any number of reasons, this is a big reason some insurance companies have priced their Tesla increases so high. Only Teslas have Autopilot, and if actuarially they can’t model the risk they need to find an ad hoc way to reserve for it. “Tesla Insurance” is the wrong way to solve for this: they should find 1-2 captive insurers who wants to put their name on it (not Tesla) and reinsure their risk (assuming Tesla has enough capital).
I’d imagine that the main reason. That Tesla insurance is so expensive in areas is because of the cost to repair rather than a few autopilot induced accidents.
So many horror stories of minor fender benders taking months to repair and costing tens of thousands.
3 Likes
The Autopilot stuff is kind of interesting. As someone with some experience in computer vision/machine learning stuff, it’s a little disconcerting to watch state of the art CV algorithms (that Google and others have dumped millions into creating) get tripped up by fairly simple things and then think about a computer using cameras to operate a vehicle.
I mean, sure, in fairly controlled areas like a freeway, cars right now can do a pretty good job of staying in a lane and avoiding collisions, but even then you have Teslas slamming into the backs of cars or freeway dividers.
Lots of companies (including Tesla) are dumping billions into this problem and I think we’ll get there someday, but I think we’re a lot further off than people think, and I think the car that ultimately does it will have cameras + lidar. Which makes it kind of interesting when you look at leasing one - is the $6k charge for FSD worth it when you’re getting the current autopilot and auto summon and will probably turn the car in before you get the full benefit?
It’s also interesting to think about it from an accounting perspective - they can’t book the full amount as revenue since they haven’t delivered on it yet. At some point you’ll have cars out there 5, 10 years old with this option and I’m not sure what that’ll look like from on their books. Will Tesla at some point acknowledge they can’t fully deliver on it for at least some of them and do some sort of… uhh… what’s the opposite of a write-off? I’m sure there won’t be any investor lawsuits related to the accounting of something pre-sold that may or may not ever exist.
3 Likes
I agree, I think people overestimate how much personal injury costs insurance companies. Minimum insurance amounts in most states are woefully low. If you kill or maim some one with state minimum coverage, your insurance company is just going to put the money they owe into the pot and walk away. It’s just not very much money, in California it’s 30k max.
I’d hope Tesla owners carry more than the minimum insurance but most people would be better off with a reasonable auto policy and then an umbrella policy on top of that versus super deluxe auto coverage.
This is why a relatively minor accident can cost an insurance company more than you killing someone. If your car is in shop for months and they have to provide a rental car it’s expensive and requires constant monitoring.
2 Likes
Forgive me if I missed the point of your posts… I’ve tried to figure out what your purpose here is.
What do you want to accomplish in this thread?
Interesting point and as someone that’s both an owner (twice over) but also a critic of their business practices I have to say the driving experience is like nothing else on the market for the time being.
As far as automation goes the next best thing to NoAP/FSD is BMW’s traffic jam assistant available with DA Pro on the newest of the G generation cars and perhaps GM’s Supercruise but not without their own caveats.
A little more today on Jalponik:
Personally I’m content to wait and see what the real world numbers look like (especially since I think it’s a very different customer), but since you were pondering this I thought I would share.
Not that I owe you an explanation, and I think I’ve been pretty clear, but I’ll just keep grinding the point as long as the thread is open.
To opine on the many ways in which the title of this thread has the wrong punctuation mark.