Hey all, thanks alot for all the helpful info you have provided over the years here. I have been religiously coming here for years, moreso around the time to release 1 of my 4 vehicles. So I finally decided to join and be active rather than lurk.
So I was thinking this, I understand there are very key pieces of info you need to aquire to breakdown a lease and understand whether or not it is a good or not so good deal. Such as understanding the MF, RES, MSRP, Adjust CAP Cost, ect, ect
But lets say you get all that info broken down from the dealership for a certain car and you decide to now gather quotes from many other dealerships for the same exact car/package. Is it really necessary to get all that information all over again or cant you really use the Total Lease cost as a single line item comparison tool assuming you get just the down/sign off + the monthly payments from other dealerships since this is always what they like to share without getting too deep
Wouldnt the total lease cost tell you everything. Do I really care at that point what fees, MF, or RES they use if their Total Lease cost is lower then a more detailed quote I got from another dealership?
Personally, I don’t care how they fudge the numbers to get their cut. If the MF is marked up, but I pay less overall, I’m good. My only concern is my TCO (total cost of ownership) for the lease period.
Total lease cost is much higher for Audi Q7 than Toyota Corolla, is the corolla a better deal?
You need to compare it to something. If you pick msrp (like the hackr calculator) many brands have inflated msrp for many reasons such as
to provide significant discounts right off the bat and make consumer feel like they getting a deal
msrp was once competitive but now model is in 4th or 5th year and needs to discount to stay competitive in the market
tax credits bring down a very high msrp and lead to artificially (or not so artificially) great looking leases
Additionally total lease cost ignores interest on money, paying everything upfront will save you interest expense on a lease but you are foregoing earning a potential return on that money by saving / investing it in the meantime.
Simple is fine but has many biases and blind spots, no single method is unbiased / best.
At absolute bare minimum, having all the info helps you verify their aren’t issues in the deal. For example, if you find one deal is way better because the residual value is higher… What you know is that it’s not that the deal is better, but that the dealer quoted you the wrong terms.
Sure I get all that, but lets say, I have zero plans to own the car at lease end. If the Total Payments of Lease (or TCO) of the same exact car and package is lower from 1 dealer then another dealer that I got all the detailed info from, should I really care how the dealer got the total cost of the lease down as long as it will read that on the final contract?
Again, having the correct terms allows you to verify the accuracy of the deal. If the residual value is wrong, you’re not comparing apples to apples. The total lease cost may be less, but it’s because you’re not getting the same miles, etc.
Further, if you know all the variables, you may find that dealer offer B included (or didn’t include) add ons or incentives that could further improve the deal. I have seen dealers make offers that are thousands of dollars apart. It wouldn’t be hard for your dealer B offer to have a lower lease cost and still be missing incentives that could drastically improve things.
I think a better question should be “under what circumstances does having more information available to me hurt me?”
I guess the reason for this question in the first place was to see if having just the total cost of the lease is a simple comparative number to use when you have multiple dealer quotes and you are trying to simply narrow down and weed out the deals that are already out of range.
Yes I would most certainly drill down the final 1 or 2 deals with all details before I sign, but I was just wondering if I added the down payment/drive off + Monthly payments quotes and came up with total lease payments that were maybe 600-$1000 higher then my more accurate quotes, I could then simply toss these out by using that simple method?..would that make sense?
If they’re only off by $500, what makes you think that they wouldn’t be willing to negotiate further? If you have all the details, make them an offer.
Tell the dealer what you want to pay. Don’t ask them what they want you to pay.
guess your right, but Im trying to narrow down many dealers and just figure I am going to toss the ones that already come in much higher on the opening and focus my attention of the dealers that are already in my range and just need a little more…'carressing"
This is the key! The total cost can be a good indicator, but only if you have researched and understand all the underlying factors first. Total cost isn’t a shortcut.
I feel like everyone misunderstood the question… which means I probably misunderstood it myself.
I assumed (first problem) the question being asked was; Assuming all parameters of the vehicle lease are equal (model, trim, miles, term, etc…) should I care how dealer A gets to my number versus dealer B, C or D?
Thus my response of, no. TCO is my primary concern. I get the MF, RV, and incentives from Edmunds and plug info into the calculator to build the deal I’m shooting for first. Then I reach out to dealers and position the deal. If I position the deal for $300 a month with my numbers, but they mark up the MF and give a deeper discount and meet me at $300, do I care how they did it? Not really. Either way, I get the deal I wanted, right?
My deal was incorrect, but worked out in my favor. The calculator was way off. I didn’t try to dissect the deal to find the error. I just shopped payment, which is what I believe is superior to the normal leasehackr approach.
My simple strategy is the payment % of MSRP all in comparison. It isn’t perfect as some cars have inflated MSRPs, but you can at least compare leases against each other. So you look at the payment vs. what you think is fair. When I got my Giulia, others on the forum said a Kia forte deal ($27K MSRP) was good, when the TCO was higher than my $45K MSRP car. At some point, the standard approach just doesn’t make much sense.
Being here long enough you know this is the exact opposite approach that’s recommended by LH members.
If it’s worked for you thus far, then I’m happy for you. You’ll never know if shopping monthly payment is really the best deal because you won’t have all the factors or numbers. You may think you do, however, but the only way to get to the correct monthly payment is knowing how the dealer calculates it in the first place.
I know its the opposite. The standard approach tells you if the exact car you’re looking at is a good, valid deal, assuming you will get that make and model in the end. My approach tells you if your deal is good in the context of the market.
And I still validate all the numbers (or attempt to in my last case), and go into the incentives, MF, and everything.
My point is you don’t know if you’re getting the best deal using the standard method, as many people are paying $500 + / month for Kia Stingers (admittedly good cars but I don’t think are as good as the Alfa Giulia), where I’m paying $260/ mo for the Giulia.
I got my answer…as HipHop pretty much provided the answer I was looking for…as well as a few other helpful responses.
I think I should have framed my question differently. Such as…
Considering, I have a detailed lease agreement breakdown from one broker, can I use a timesaving shortcut method for other dealerships to just obtain the Total Lease payments or TCO for the same vehicle and package? Thus, this could save some extra time to easily allow me to sort out deals that arent even in the range of what Im looking to spend. Is there any issue with this strategy?
You’re taking it on faith that you’re actually comparing apples to apples and you’re forgoing an easy way of identifying opportunities for improvement. Further, you’re missing out on an opportunity to have dealers price match deals with hidden fees.
For example, there is a honda dealer in southern california that advertises huge discounts but makes up the difference with dealer add ons that they throw on at the end. Twice I have got a quote from them that broke down pre-incentive discount rather than total lease cost and was able to get another dealer to match that number without any add ons. If I had just used the monthly/total lease cost to compare, I would have been about 2k higher.
Honestly, with many dealers, talking monthly payments can be advantageous. It’s simply too difficult to get some of them to switch gears and look at the problem from any other perspective. So, I do all the usual digging/calculating on my own (knowing full well what the dealer needs to do to get to a given payment), then many times I simply suggest that payment with a total out of pocket number included (which is almost always $0). You just have to be careful with this approach when you are dealing with the most unicorn of deals, because FOLP (fear of low payments) is a real condition, LOL.
