Signed but confused at how the numbers work

Ask the Hackrs Buy/Finance
1

I am in Portland, Oregon. I just leased a 2024 Subaru Forester Sport

I thought I had a good deal worked out. Read everything in the finance office, but then they had me sign on a tablet. Reread, but my eyes aren’t what they used to be.

Here is my offer sheet. Adjusted price was the 7% off I was going for. Dealer claimed it was invoice price. I verified this by asking for the invoice. It was provided on the spot.

Agreed upon price: 33216
Money Factor: .00229
Credit came back at 721. This offer is a tier 1 offer as far as I can tell. I was happy with this.

The first thing I asked the salesperson was what the MF was. It matched with the expected number.

First offer
First offer1200×1600 210 KB

They came back to me and said they were struggling to get financing approved. did not expect my credit to come back that high. I believe it’s closer to 660, and I expected tier 3. Gave them some paperwork they asked for. Was given a second offer, this time at tier 3. MF still looks good. Payment went up, but the MF was exactly what it should be, tier 1 + .00050.

Second offer
Second offer1200×1600 222 KB

Dealer invoice
Dealer invoice1200×1600 213 KB

Asked them to roll in all the costs possible. Expected to owe first month at delivery.

While signing I see $1431.33 due at signing. I ask about this. I was told “We are covering that.” I should have questioned this more, but I didn’t.

Now on the lease the payment and residual is where I expected it to be. Only bought the lifetime oil changes for $549, after talking it down from $599. What I didn’t catch in the office was that they changed the agreed upon price to make this work somehow. However the lease still says $1431.33 drive off.

I don’t understand what they did, and honestly I am not sure if they gave me the money factor I was promised. .00279

I cannot get this to work in the calulator at all. I can get really close, but only with a marked up MF.

Now the end result is I have the payment I expected, and I paid zero before leaving. I don’t know, it just doesn’t sit right. Help me understand these lease please?

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money factor
money factor1200×1600 405 KB

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It appears they increased the agreed upon price of the vehicle by the $1436 that they did not ask you to pay upfront, but the lease payment is calculated assuming you paid it. I don’t know why they did this except to help get you financed. Maybe others can comment on why the dealer would structure the deal this way.

You do realize you signed a lease for 15K miles per year, not the 12K you had in the calculator?

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They only gave you a 2.7% discount (971.69) off the MSRP of 35,716 to arrive at an agreed upon value of 34,744.31 which is an increase of 1,528.31 over the initial agreed value of 33,216. They need to lower the agreed upon value by 100. If you did not pay anything at signing, in other words zero drive-off, then I would make damn sure that they can’t try to collect the 1,431.33 and get it in writing. That is a terrible way to do business. Have you taken delivery of the vehicle?

Your MF = 0.00279, Res. Factor = 62% reflecting 36 mo./15k miles. Residual = 62% x 35,716 = 22,143.92. Your gross and adjusted cap match exactly at 36,203.20 as you have no cap reduction. Your payment is…

0.00279 x (36,203.20 + 22,143.92) + (36,203.20 - 22,143.92)/36 = 553.33

Everything checks out except the only sticking point is the 1,431.33 due at delivery.

Hope this helps.

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4

This is not uncommon at all, depending on exactly how the dealer structures the numbers on your contract.

I did a $0 DAS lease, but on my contract with MBFS it shows my first month payment as due at signing. The dealer paid that amount out of their own pocket, as it appears they did on your deal.

As long as you walked out with your target payment and DAS then I really wouldn’t stress over this.

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That would make sense except they increased the “agreed” upon price more than the total due at signing.

I did not notice I had 12k in the calculator. I changed the numbers so many times trying to make it match and failed.

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I have taken delivery yes. I suppose my biggest concern at this point, is the lease says I owe them $1441.33 at signing and I have no paperwork saying that I do not owe them that money. I am not certain if there is any way they could claim I didn’t pay and try and get that money. I kinda doupt it, but you never know.

Thank you for confirming the MF for me!

7

Can anyone make the calculator come out with the correct numbers? I don’t understand where some things are supposed to go. Oregon makes it more confusing with the way they do vehicle taxes. It’s not a set percent.

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You have to do whatever makes you comfortable. Personally, I would prefer that they provide documentation that says I don’t owe all or any part of the 1,431.33. Hopefully, it won’t evolve into a she said he said situation. Or, who told you they will cover it? That’s not true. Or they no longer work here, or they died last week. Better to be safe than sorry. It only takes a few minutes to ask them for documentation. Can’t believe the way business is done in good 'ole America the great.

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9

I don’t use lease calculators except an excel spreadsheet that I developed. It’s capable of structuring any type of lease by any captive or bank. However, below is my best shot at using the LH calculator…

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Obligatory PSA to ask before signing, not after.

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Looks like you nailed it. Thank you!

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These aren’t the same numbers I saw on paper. Then they switched to an ipad. I tried my damnedest to read everything on there but was hard for me to read it. Missed that anything had changed, as the payment and residual were the same.

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OP, if it makes you feel any better, while some dealers rightfully get a bad rap, they’re not in the business of trying to collect money from customers after the fact. It’s hard to impossible. They just want to make a sale and move on to the next one.

The finance manager wouldn’t let you out of their office, much less drive off the lot with their car, if they were under any assumption that the $1441 was actually due from you.

Otherwise, it would take an EXTREMELY sketchy dealer, even by sketchy dealer standards, if their sales tactic was to get contracts signed that were different than the agreed upon deal and then try to collect more later. They would not be in business long.

I really wouldn’t worry about this and just enjoy your new ride.

1 Like
14

Its called shorting the COD. its how many brokers make money on their deals

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I had this exact same issue when I leased my highlander a few years ago. If you took delivery of the vehicle, then you are good. They cannot collect it after the fact. They just did this to make the numbers work. In my case, it noted I put down $4,000 on my formal TFS contract, when I only made the first month payment of $399. I literally had the same situation as you did, with paperwork, then the switch to a rushed iPad signing. I went back several days later when I got my contract and the finance guy told that if they release a vehicle with a down payment not made, they would eat it, Toyota or the dealer would not come after the customer for any amount due, as they shouldn’t have released the car without the down payment being made. You’re good to go. Congrats on the new car and enjoy it.

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It’s called shorting the COD. Its often used to pay brokers but can be used in standard dealer deals