Potential Lemon Law

Hello everyone,

I’m brand new here and this is my first post. Its a long story so if your eyes glaze over half way through i cant blame you and i thank you for your time.

I leased a 2020 Explorer XLT loaner/demonstrator with every opinion besides the $595 bench seat (ridiculous I know). I leased the vehicle in February and it went into the shop for the first time from 3/20 - 3/24 (5 days) for multiple small problems such as the under carriage vibrating when driving, steering column panels falling off and tailgate misaligned (hitting rear bumper). Here we are 6 months later and is back in the shop for 15 days as of today for a transmission issues including a leak/hard shifts, undercarriage again and sunroof shade off track. The car was put in on 08/17 and i was told parts would not be in until 09/15 (30 days later). I contacted the GM because of the amount of problems I have had thus far and the fact that they put me in a Nissan Rouge sport both times which is much less of a car then i leased was rubbing me the wrong way. He got back to me after a long email and said he would reach out to Ford and give the dealerships endorsement to recommend replacing the vehicle. Ford came back to him apparently a week later saying in his words “ They are essentially willing to pay about $5000 towards a replacement vehicle“. I requested quotes on a limited and ST just to see since “ABOUT $5000” would be going towards it so the payment would be reasonable i would like to think and i was not really happy with the XLT. He claimed he would put a proposal together over the weekend and came back to me with the following “ Rough numbers: With no money out of your pocket, the limited would come in at $538 per month. The ST about $640 per month. In both of these cases, you are out of your current lease.” Im at a point now where I’m laughing at how ridiculous this is because i could be in some way better then an Ford Explorer for that money looking on here. I have a total of 20 days in the shop so far and they claim as of today after I reached put to them in would done by Friday (25 days). This is my first and last Ford that much i know. Where should i go from here is the question i have. What would you do?

We have a Ford lemon expert - @jeisensc


what are you currently paying and how much did you pay out of pocket at the start?

@Ursus Thank you very much!

@Qbrozen Not the greatest deal. $2500 total down payment at $470/month I had a US Bank 2017 Ram Rebel that had 3 payments at $519 a month they paid within the total down payment ($1557) which they paid out of that. I’m out a total of $5320 as of now.

Talk to a lemon law lawyer.

In many states, the vehicle has to reach 30 days in service to qualify for a lemon claim, so at this point, if the laws there are the same, they could have just told you to go pound sand. There’s really nothing to do here other than to call up a lemon law lawyer and get their take on what to do, be it with the what you have now or what to document for when the next 5 days of in service happen.

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I appreciate @Ursus endorsement (I also had a Mazda and VW that were lemons, but yes the Ford). However I have never lived in PA, and Lemon Law varies state to state, so I do recommend you consult with a Lemon Lawyer in your state.

Now back to peddling free advice:

  • Generally it has to be in for the same issue at least 3 times, or out of service a total of 30 days in the first year. It sounds more like the latter than the former
  • I understand the sentiment about the rental/loaner being less-than what you actually leased - let that go, it’s not useful or helpful nor part of the argument. It sucks, and I can tell you a story about having to take my dying dog in a sucky loaner to (as it turned out) be put to sleep, and how hard it was in the loaner vs my car – doesn’t matter and isn’t relevant.

As I mentioned, I would consult with a Lemon Lawyer to see what they think. I was unsuccessful with my Mazda lemon in Ohio because of how the lemon law is written and implemented there, vs two successful cases in California (that also would have worked in Virginia and NY). If you do speak with a lawyer, DO NOT tell Ford you are speaking with a lawyer. The moment you sign papers with the lemon lawyer, Ford corporate can’t speak with you anymore, and your warranty claims will be processed (it’s against the law to deny them), but their helpfulness ends.

As for where to go with Ford, instead of them selling you another car (which the dealership wants), if you can’t get lease terms close to what you have now, what you want to ask for is a collateral exchange where Ford keeps your existing lease in place, but swaps out your citrus-scented XLT for another XLT that hopefully has fewer-to-no issues.

It sounds like they are trying to work with you without much a fight, and you just got a bad car (they’re mechanical and electronic - the break from time to time). If you are at all considering staying with the brand, I think a collateral exchange is what I would pursue.

Good luck and keep us posted.

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The new lease doesn’t seem like much of a bargain. Even Rodo is showing me (in NJ) a $51,625 MSRP Limited for 36/12k (you didn’t mention your term) for $500/mo with $3500 DAS. So, with $5k “paid by Ford,” it would be more like $455 with $0 OOP.

As others said, you have to hit that 30-day mark. At this point, I’d probably tell the GM “thanks but no thanks. I’d rather, at this point, wait to see if this vehicle winds up qualifying as a lemon.” You did ask what I would do, after all. So take that for what it is worth. :slight_smile:

Oh, and if the GM came back and said “what would it take,” I’d like answer with a stock number or numbers from his inventory and an offer of something like “not a penny more than I’m paying now and nothing DAS.”

Summary of PA Lemon law:

Here I am stewing over which shop dished this out. You Central, West, or Eastern PA?

You’re going to need to at least speak to a lawyer, the PA Bar association recommends attorneys for free.

@jeisensc Thank you for your input I appreciate it. I just want out at this point because there are way better options out there then subpar Ford Explorers for the money they are commanding.

@Qbrozen Trust me I want to do that but I want to be sensible at the same time.

@HersheySweet Im glad to see you feel the way I do about the whole thing. Im located in the Philadelphia area.

That ship has sailed. You also used the Ford rebate to payoff your prior lease, and put money down at signing, which you aren’t getting back if you walk away. The dealership has no ability to unwind your lease, they can trade you out or Ford can buy it back (I’ve never been able to get a manufacturer to buyback without a lawyer, in less than 6 months, even after 6-12 months of documenting problems).

The best advice I can give you having been in this situation several times before: don’t overplay your hand.

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@jeisensc I actually did not use that rebate (I had no clue there was one) I just put 2500 down and they were going to buy my truck out and found out how US bank works after the fact. In turn they ate the 3 remaining payments and sat on their lot until almost July. Im hoping to get a buyback so thanks for the information unfortunately.

If you will go through the legal route, just talk to a lawyer as soon as possible.

I went through this with BMW, and it took 18 months for them to buy-back my car.

If they offer you a collateral exchange, that’s a good option. If they would have offered me that, I would not think about it for another second and jumpEd on it. It was pretty stressful in my case. Lots of depositions, inspections etc.

Also don’t post too much about it on internet.

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@okaplan Thank you very much for
the wise advice I appreciate it.

I know what direction to head thank you all!