Agreed. This notion of infinite decamillionaires out there ready to pounce on any weakness in asset prices is hilarious. Falling tide hurts all ships
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At the end of the day, there’s more than 2000 people who can comfortably afford this car at MSRP + whatever 6 figure ADM dealers will charge. The fact that these have become short term investment pieces just adds frosting to the cake.
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So is Porsche going to make sure the dealers only sell these at MSRP without a markup? Are they going to close all the loop holes that are sometimes used by unscrupulous dealers to sell low volume exotics?
Was just using that as an example. If we go with the 10 mill mark that’s fine too. The population is aging and boomers have shown the last 10 years that they’re not their parents and are spending at a record pace on anything and everything, and passing those habits to their children and grandchildren. Marketing and their influencers have pushed this yolo attitude towards consumption. Higher interest rates are def curbing spending as it should but plenty of cash buyers still out there.
4 million people in the USA make over 700k per year. That’s the current threshold to be in the 1%. I just don’t see a 2008 style crash where spending just plummets. We’re just going to continue in the same direction of a very large and indebted “middle class” which would historically be defined net worth wise as lower class. Sure they have a home and 2 cars, all the tech etc but they’re paycheck to paycheck.
There’s 6.2 million millionaires in china. Making up about 10% of the worlds millionaires. America has 22 million. It’s going to take a huge global equities and real estate crash to wipe these people out and I just don’t see it happening.
I worded that poorly. Just saying they don’t want stipulations when buying. Most will keep it for well over a year, they just don’t want to be forced into it. I hope the people who buy them and flat bed them to third-party dealers get reported to Porsche’s “do not sell list” by the original dealer. I know Porsche watches that market and dealers do as well.
They have and the demand is still there. Just look at the base price for a GT3 over the past 3 model years. Base MSRP went from $161k to $183k and every model has had the MSRP raised over the past 2 years. Plus the term “incentive” is a dirty word to PCNA. That would go against their entire business model.
They will all be sold at MSRP. Just ignore the accessories package for $250,000. Porsche has tried to stop or limit ADMs, but there is nothing they can really do since it is not illegal. And the dealers that don’t charge over have multi-year waitlists or just sell locally.
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And at 183k isn’t the wait list like 3 years? Which means it’s still way too low. Just seems like a dumb business move but I guess they’re rewarding their long term customers at the same time. If you want to stop flippers you just have to make it unflippable…
These things tend to be inelastic. If they make the price 250k tomorrow it’s not like the list will go down 1/3. It’ll prob go down much more. If they increase the prices too much they could suffocate demand and it would look pretty bad if they ended up cutting prices due to lack of demand after raising.
Number one thing Porsche cares about is the image of Porsche
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This is the most underrated comment in this thread.
Does anyone realistically think that Porsche is unaware of the fact their cars are outpacing MSRP on most levels? A quick conversation with anyone who’s in tune with the automotive market will solidify that the widespread lust for Porsche pretty much came out of left field. Everyone wants one and the scarcity only emphasizes that.
Remember how journalists including C&D, R&T etc. used to practically characterize Porsches as a ‘bargain’? No longer.
This whole situation is working out very well for Porsche’s brand image long term, and that far outweighs jumping MSRP by double digit percentages (and nuking their enormous customer base) in the near term.
Think they do have to be careful though and are pushing the envelope. I don’t think they can perpetually do these massive hikes year after year and maintain the demand.
Not sure if I would call them a bargain before but maybe good value for the package and performance relative to alternatives ? And now we are more in neutral to overhyped territory for the value and perf relative to what you have to do/pay to get them , relative to alternatives. If we’re comparing a 911 to an m4 , the 911 is better, is it twice as good? Probably not though yes you ofc with lux/high end goods you end up paying disproportionately for small upgrades.
Think the demand is softening. Def seeing more of the sports cars available than a year ago. The inelasticity of demand applies to orders too and inventory can creep up if a bunch of people get spooked and dump their orders. A decent percentage of the orders are people who figure it’s a can’t lose situation , where they can just sell car if they don’t love it and still probably make money.
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Agreed on all counts. Maybe bargain wasn’t the best word to use, but I’m dating back to reading 996 reviews and how they were near pasta rocket performance without the fuss and drama.
Regarding softening, it’s definitely happening. I know of one person who dropped their 911S order because they weren’t looking to take a bath on deprecation (comical) as they think the free ride is coming to an end.
Also was over on F80Post last night and someone was complaining their M4 is down $15k in one year.
Lots of people are about to be swimming in negative equity but wondering how they got in the pool. 
The prices are still sky high compared to precovid. Just not as high as they were at the peak. I’ve been patiently waiting for years and still see very few bargains out there. Inflation will do that…and with rates where they are that kills the people that will finance them and demand is still holding up. Bc people have cash and instant gratification is still the name of the game for a lot of people that have benefitted from this economy the last few years. Savings isn’t something most are concerned with it seems. Which in an inflationary environment makes sense if you have guaranteed future income.
This approach is totally fair Porsche. Assuming you ensure that dealers will lose their franchise if they add ADM to this car. They certainty don’t want the little man buyer to flip/make money on these but are okay with the big man dealers marking these up 30-50% over MSRP. Seems totally fair… 
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Part of the reason demand for GT3s is as high as it is is because of the ADM driving a feeling of scarcity and exclusivity. I’m sure Porsche corporate is aware that if they raise the MSRP too high, and make cars more readily available at sticker, they will lose a lot of potential buyers due to the perception of availability.
That would have already had to be in their dealer agreements, which are set for very long terms. No matter what they’d find a way around it, sell it to a "preferred buyer, let them own it for a few months, take it back on trade for full price, now it’s a used car and can sell at market value.
There’s obv way more than that. How many want one is the obvious question
Does anyone know hoe many they sell a year?
Well, they are making 1963 S/Ts for the world and all will be 2024s assuming 2025 will be the 992.2.
911 prices are nuts - once we see these start too fall ze buble has boorst
Our flipper emeritus @mattevan has officially resigned and now babysits a professional Wagen
We are still 3+ years on a lot of our 911 models. Forget about it for a Turbo S or Targa. Really the only one that is somewhat easy to get right now is a base 911.
Every part of Porsche is expected to be a profit center, including customer Motorsports. This means the GT cars and Cup cars have to pay for themselves and make a return. But GT cars (and the sports cars in general) are not where Porsche makes their money. It’s where they create their band image in turn sells the cars that make them money.
For every five SUVs or sedans Porsche sells one 911. For every ten regular 911s Porsche sells one GT car. And this “special” GT car is a subset of those. This car represents well under 1% of Porsche’s production, but it will cast an outsized shadow in the form of publicity and brand image.
The most important thing from this perspective is that the car is well received and good things are said about it. When the Top Gear TV (no longer the most watched show on earth but it still casts a big shadow) does a story on it if the conclusion is “not worth it, not as good as the Ferrari for similar money” that’s hundreds of Macans and Cayennes not sold. Often to people who couldn’t even drive an ST because they can’t drive stick. And don’t assume that article couldn’t happen, because it has…
Many won’t remember that Porsche actually got it wrong with the 918 not that long ago. They priced the 918 just below a million dollars and set out to sell 918 copies, but half way through the production run hundreds of cars remained unsold. It became an embarrassment- Porsche was forced to go to “special” customers and promise first pick of future allocations, etc, to insure their halo car didn’t become an albatross that would do lasting damage their reputation. The idea that no one wanted the cars and they needed to be discounted would have hurt brand image and sales for years. Of course Porsche managed to save it mostly behind the scenes, the cars quickly sold out when Porsche announced only 50 were left and today they are worth multiples of when they were new so all is forgotten. But it very nearly went another way.
The other thing to keep in mind is that Porsche is very structured when it comes to pricing: you pay for performance. This is going back a long way, but some playing I did once upon a time:
(Current was 2013):
If you do the math historically $290k (the MSRP of the S/T) has bought you about 360 hp per ton. And the 911 S/T just happens to be 372 hp per ton (GT cars as “halo” models tend to run a little high).
In any case I think adjusting MSRP is the wrong way to go and impractical for multiple reasons. Having been on the receiving end of attempted ADM due in part to flipper I think the lease strategy is exactly right in this case. Kudos to Porsche. Now if only they’d make a “cooking” version of this car like the Touring…
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