On tax-based incentives for repeat leasing in Texas

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I’ll start by emphasizing that a lot of this only really applies in Texas, so the lease systems with which you’re familiar are likely quite different. Anyway. I’ve been thinking about the motives and incentives for the parties involved in repeated lease agreements, with regard to sales tax. So let’s establish some background first.

When you lease a new car, you negotiate with a dealer, who has an agreement with a bank. The bank buys a car from the dealer and then rents it to you for a few years. At the end of the rental (lease) term, you give it back to the bank. It was always the bank’s car.

In Texas, sales tax on leases gets weird. At the initial lease origination, the bank (the lessor) pays sales tax (6.25%) to the state for the full purchase price of the vehicle, just like any other buyer would. Then, they typically make you (the lessee) reimburse them for that full tax bill. Which, in my opinion, is stupid, because at the end of the lease, they own a car for which they effectively paid no sales tax, and you as the lessee owed no tax to the state. (Sometimes you’ll pay a negligible use tax.)

Fine, whatever. That’s not the point of my post.

In Texas, when you own a vehicle and you trade in that vehicle as part of the purchase of a new one, you, as the buyer, only owe sales tax on the difference between the trade-in value and the new car’s price.

If I want to trade in a leased vehicle in a similar manner, those rules don’t apply to me. I don’t own the leased car, but I can [usually] sell it to a dealer, who pays the bank their residual and pays me the equity. Then I can lease a different car, which means I pay full sales tax on the new car again. It’s a separate transaction entirely.

But what happens when I want to go lease-to-lease using the same bank? (assume neutral or positive equity.)

Behind the scenes, the bank sells their leased car to the dealer and buys the new one on my behalf in the same transaction. They give me my equity, but then the bank only has to pay sales tax on the difference between the price of the two cars, right? But they’re still going to make me pay them the equivalent of sales tax on the full purchase price of the new one. Because “that’s just how it works in Texas.”

But I don’t have to do it that way. I can sell my leased Mazda to Carmax or whatever, and then go back to the dealer and lease another Mazda. I’m still going to have to pay the same sales tax on the new lease, but this time, so does the bank. So what incentive do I have to help the Mazda bank save some money on sales tax? If I received the same buyout offer from Carmax as from the Mazda dealer, I’d probably just sell it to Carmax out of spite.

Here’s my real-world situation to illustrate. I have a Mazda lease ending soon. My car is worth $22,000, and I want to lease a new Mazda with a sale price of $47,000. If my assumptions are correct, then MFS (TMCC) will only owe Texas state sales tax on the difference—$25,000. They are exempt from the sales tax on the $22,000 value of their trade-in. By selling the car back to Mazda instead of Carmax, I’m saving the bank $1375 in taxes to the state of Texas.

So, with all of that, what is the reason that we don’t see better incentives to trade in a lease for another lease in Texas?

“Because they can get away with pocketing the difference when it does happen” is the obvious answer, of course. But it’s still a free market, and one would think that some enterprising captive banks would start offering a competitive perk to entice more lease-to-lease loyalty.

I know that they often do slip in these sort of “sales tax credits” under L&M line items to make a deal work. But it always comes across as random shenanigans by the dealer to move a bunch of numbers around. And there’s no consistency; you could do the same deal for the same car with three different dealers, and you might get three different utilizations of this hypothetical sales tax delta (if any at all).

It would be so much easier for those of us who like to DIY the lease math to just know this is a standard factor when projecting lease costs. As it stands today, I just kind of include an arbitrary “tax credit” amount in my calculator when I’m coming up with my “desired lease payment” for a given car. Then I just kind of have to hope that the dealer and the bank will figure out how to get there.

In my example above, I figure I’m saving the bank $1375 in sales tax. So I hold my finger in the air, check the alignment of the planets, and say, “I guess it would be nice if they offered me and the dealer $900 of that to help me get a better deal on the next car I’m leasing from them.” I use that in estimating my “goal price” when I go shopping.

In my real-world scenario, I’ve talked to five or six dealers who all offered me very similar prices on the next lease, with very similar appraisals of my trade-in. But one of them—unprompted, other than my persistence in seeking a much lower price—seems to have found $1078 or so, shuffled among a bunch of different factors in the lease equation, to beat the other offers by quite a bit. I have to assume they just chose to apply those sales tax credits to my deal instead of giving them to someone else (like their GM).

Bottom line: All else being equal, I think a customer seeking a lease-to-lease transaction should receive an additional incentive that’s not otherwise available to other prospective lessees. Just, as a general rule.

You listening, Big Banks? I want to pay you less money for a lease. But in return, I’ll try to help you save money on your taxes.

I fully expect the only response to this post to be, “Congratulations. Now you know how banks make money.”

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The proper thing to do in Texas is find out which vehicles tax credits are being offered on and then target those. It isn’t as ad hoc by the dealer as you’re thinking it is. CCAP, for example, just let dealers know they’re offering tax credits on a handful of vehicle through the end of the month. That’s not a dealer specific thing, it’s a bank specific thing. Now, can a dealer opt to play shenanigans with that information? Absolutely. But as a buyer, you should try to seek out that information before reaching out to dealers so you know what’s available.

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This is really helpful. Any clue how to figure this out in advance ? :thinking:

Ok, that part I understand. But then I want to understand the business side of those decisions on the part of the bank. What is the source funding of those occasional credits offered on specific vehicles by specific banks at a given time?

Do they save up the “credits” on their balance sheet from all the times they were able to pull a car from their off-lease inventory to “trade in” as part of a new lease agreement, whether the consumer was involved or knew about it at all? Obviously this happens in a quick and automated fashion all the time; the bank doesn’t want to own a bunch of cars for any amount of time.

In that case, I still feel like it would be cool (and beneficial to the bank) for them to give a little splash to those consumers who do help them out by generating tax credits in one simple transaction (that is, bringing a lease-end car to the dealer, negotiating a deal, and trading it in on another lease with the same bank).

And what goes into deciding which vehicles can be used for consuming this stash of credits? Why would the bank not just want dealers to sell as many cars to as many people as possible? I could understand why a manufacturer would want to incentivize dealers in a particular region to sell more Broncos or whatever. So sure, Ford’s credit arm could be compelled to hand out some of their sales tax credits that they piled up from all of those Expedition lease trade-ins they funded a while back. But what would motivate someone like US Bank to horde those sales tax savings until the time is right for them to offer them to some specific Stallantis dealers to help move a bunch of Pacificas? I guess it’s like asking an actuary to explain how an insurance company works, once you keep digging into it.

I don’t think I actually need answers to any of these questions, because I realize the answers are varied and many. And that what I’m really getting at is, “How do both the Automotive sales and Banking industries work, like on a fundamental level?” And that’s just a much bigger question than can be addressed on an internet forum.

In any event, anyone have any cool reading on the subject? Or are we getting into that fuzzy area of arcane knowledge that you can only gain by paying membership dues for many years to some secret society with funny hats?

Final question then: what’s the best way to keep up to date on the models for which these sales tax credits are offered? I don’t lease cars often enough to really build a relationship with multiple sales managers in my region. I try to catch up on LH and Edmunds and other forums every few years, when it’s time to go shopping again. And at those times, I usually have a pretty narrow set of criteria, so not like I need “the best deal on a sedan with four wheels” type of flexibility. I just want to know how much the car I want should cost, and it’s a freaking recursive question every time.

I’m not trying to be an elite hacker who’s constantly taking out one-pay notes on an Aston Martin loaner, flipping that into a 2-year-old Atlas that a dealer friend found in the back of his lot, only to turn that into a killer deal a month later, where they’re stuck driving a base model Mini Cooper convertible for the next 3 years—but it only cost them $94/mo with $400 DAS. I also don’t want to just pay a broker, because I really do enjoy the whole process and the shopping and identifying the right car for my needs and then figuring out how much it should cost and researching all of the hidden incentives and secret-society shit that you’ll only get if you call the internet manager in rural Kansas on a Tuesday and speak only in Pig Latin.

It’s not that I don’t want to “do the work.” It doesn’t seem like there’s actual work to be done. It’s just a matter of asking the right person the right question at the right time. I get a lot of great insight and information from these forums, but I’m inevitably left trying to explain to myself why the numbers I’m getting from dealers don’t fit into the same equations I’ve been told are “how leases work.” So then I just have to infer things like “this dealer must have tax credits he didn’t tell me about” or “this one is marking up the MF but still arriving at the same monthly payment because screw your calculator that’s why.”

I hate that I love putting myself through this stuff each time. I just want to, like, read the encyclopedias of car financing and have a little epiphany and then find something else to obsess over the next time the Olympics come around.

I hope nobody read all of that. I should be more respectful of your time, and I’m sorry.

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BMW to BMW (lease to lease) gets lender tax credit against trade value on the incoming car.

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Quick question: someone asked me yesterday if he should bring his Bolt to Houston when he moves there in October due to job transfer. It’s on 3 year lease, expiring April 2024, got it back when payments were $200/month. Here in CA, we pay sales tax based on monthly lease payment - kind of pay as you go. Lease buyout is $21k in April 2024 and he wants to buy out. Can anyone color in what happens when he goes to TX DMV to register that car ?

There’s a new resident fee you pay to bring it in and reg.

When you buy the lease out you pay full sales tax on the buyout amount.

when you return the car at the end of lease and get new one? so you pay tax on new car MSRP-residual of returning car??
I didnt knew this :open_mouth:

When you trade in yes.

The proper thing to do in Texas is find out which vehicles tax credits are being offered on and then target those.

So, other than lowering your tax burden by trading in a vehicle, what other sales tax credits are there?

Some lenders will pass along what they call a “sales tax credit” to the buyer to pay all or most of the sales tax. It’s kind of convoluted on how that is done. Maybe someone can chime in that can explain it well.

Check with your dealer but if you aren’t satisfied with trade offer, you can seek out your own buyer and do an in and out which gets you the tax credit on the trade even if you’re not selling to the store.

This credit can be held up to a year, YMMV.

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