IMO it is broken because you have a site with the purpose of “hacking” deals and you also have a bunch of irrelevant overpriced garbage being spammed in the marketplace because dealers pay to sponsor.
This isn’t about free market, this is about making a suggestion as a user of the site. The owners can improve the site by holding their advertisers to some standards that are in line with the purpose of the site. It will become more valuable to those who do advertise and weed out the dealers that are shady and wasting space and ultimately preying on users through positive association with a site where people think they are going to find a deal.
This is where many good theories fall apart: the actionable part. The “remedy” you’re proposing needs to be way better than a popularity contest which can be easily gamed, or a cabal of omniscient overlords.
I’ve noticed some brokers posting deals with only an MSRP and a payment. No selling price or discount %, no MF, etc. (much less an LH calculator link). I assume they’re doing that because those numbers suck. The lack of transparency with the numbers feels not in the spirit of this forum.
I think any one should have the freedom to post any offer they’d like, BUT I’d like to see every poster disclose the basic set of numbers (MSRP, selling price or discount %, required add-ons if any, fees if any, MF or markup if a lease offer) or ideally post an LH calc link
It would be great if you could propose a more elegant solution. If you can’t, then please don’t just shoot down those who do come up with ideas. I would rather have required criteria and a few “overlords” than what we have right now.
Thank you for your suggestions! We evolve our community standards and guidelines over time. The current Marketplace advertising standards can be found here. If you find a thread in violation of these guidelines, please feel free to PM @admins or flag the offending post (and cite the guideline that’s been violated).
Original Post (OP) Requirements
The OP is the first post that shoppers see when viewing a Marketplace topic. An effective OP will convey all essential information and result in fewer repetitive questions. Please update the OP whenever new deals become available. All OPs shall include the following at minimum:
Date last updated
Currently available deals* (links to specific posts or spreadsheet are allowed)
Instructions on how to obtain the deal, including contact information
*Does not apply to Dealers bound by manufacturer advertising covenants.
Advertising Standards
Dealer or Broker advertisements posted on, or linked to, the Marketplace should include the following:
Approximate MSRP
Amount due at signing
Monthly payment
Months and annual mileage
Broker fee amount, if required (disclose on every post that contains a deal, not just OP)
If the amount due at signing is advertised as “first + taxes + fees”, provide an estimation of the drive-off amount based on seller’s state.
If conditional incentives are included in the deal, disclose the dollar amount of those incentives, and provide an estimate as to how much more the deal would be without incentives.
Marketplace titles that include a monthly payment shall specify what is due at signing. Titles shall not be predominantly in all-caps.
FWIW - LH is a pretty efficient market - if your deals suck (frankly if they’re even average) relative to the market, no one will buy a car, and thus no one comments, or brokers don’t post deals etc.
It is a free market. If brokers/dealers are posting “bad deals” as you say, then folks won’t gravitate to those deals.
EDIT:
Posting a discount off MSRP is useless, unless the Money Factor (MF) is also posted. For example, one dealer might post a higher discount (but mark up the MF), while another dealer might post a lower discount (with a base MF).
Price for outright purchase or finance (if different/higher than lease)
The discount-off MSRP seems like a must for evaluating a deal and has been seconded by many in this thread. The purchase price is also important since leases getting unfavorable and many are now opting for financing.
Discount off MSRP is important and already included in the listings of the best brokers (Clutch, LeaseCompanion, etc.).
I don’t see how it’s useless; without it, there are two hidden variables. If discount off MSRP is included, it would make it more clear than MF is being marked up.
I don’t think I’ve seen a decent lease deal of any type, ANYWHERE, for the past 6 months plus.
Factor in the $1000 inception/disposition fees, the wear&tear/mileage restrictions, inflated MF and it really makes ZERO sense to lease these days. The only exception might be with those banks that allow you to sell to third parties…but even those may change their tune anytime.
I’m going to need to replace our second car this fall…I’m really not sure what I’ll do. But based on deals on this board, leasing is not going to be an option.
I understand your point, my point is that having discount off MSRP would further expose those brokers who are marking up the money factor, so how that be bad. The discount would be one more thing to look at and how can that be bad.
Also, I also suggested that the listings include the price for outright purchase or finance. That would further show if the discount off MSRP is legit.
Exactly. I can discount and mark up the mf. There’s many factors into a good deal.
Most important thing is competition. And we have lots here, that’s how you get the lowest pricing. I have no problem with dealers paying this website to advertise shit deals. Just makes my deals look that much better.
People who come here clearly care about pricing. I doubt they buy the first car they see…
Haven’t seen a decent lease deal here compared to what? 2 years ago? Live in the now, that’s all that matters. Deals here are much better then deals most people get on their own. Hence why fees can be charged to obtain them.
