Lexus Dealer asking for more $ almost 3 months after trading in leased Audi

Ask the Hackrs
1

This is in California.

I had a 2018 Audi A5, lease payments all met, lease end 5/8/21. Mileage significantly under the maximum.

Purchased new Lexus on 4/27/21, dealer obtained payoff amount from Audi FS. I know what the payoff amount on the website was, which the dealer’s amount was slightly higher because of some “fee” from (or for) the dealer.

Lease complete, deal finished on 4/27/21.

On 6/15/21, dealer contacts me and says that an additional 4800 is owed, as payoff was “short.”

Dealer emails document from Audi FS, stating the shortage, dated 6/7/21. Dealer also emails credit card form, which is also part of a form that I signed, that says “I understand that if the payoff amount listed is less than what is actually owed to the lender, I am responsible for this amount to be paid to (DEALER) immediately.”

Contacted Audi FS, which provided me a copy of the quote they supposedly faxed the dealer on 4/27/21, which shows the higher amount.

I reply to the email, with the attached quote, and say:
“Sounds like an error on your part. Attached is the quote that Audi sent you, on the day it was requested. “

Dealer financial manager replies:
“I am not sure where that payoff was. The sheet you signed was for X, the sheet clearly says you are liable for the difference. I am truly sorry for this mistake.”

My response to that was:
“Sorry, not my problem. The quote you were sent from Audi, was sent to me today. It clearly shows the correct amount.”

I cc’d the GM of the dealership on that one.

After which, the financial manager left me a voicemail, urging me to call him at his mobile number.

Not having seen the quote the dealer “received” (neither at the point of sale, or now, other than from Audi FS), or how much they actually paid (and when), I am not sure how this happened.

One guess is they performed the payoff later than 10 days from the quote. Coincidentally, this was around the time that used car prices were going through the roof. I considered paying the lease off myself, and trading it in (or selling it), but they assured me this was no issue.

It has been a few hours now, and I have not heard anything further from them (after getting phone calls every 20 minutes for 1-2 hours).

Since then, after doing some research (on this site), I see it is a regular occurrence for Audi FS (& VW) to quote dealers significantly higher amounts for payoff, than to the end customer. While I think this is a shady practice, I suppose there is nothing preventing them from doing so. I imagine if it was an Audi dealer doing this, the results would have been quite different.

As a CAR DEALER, I would absolutely expect them to be aware of this.

2

Ok. Is there a question?

3 Likes
3

Audi/VW are known to give outside dealers a different payoff based on market value for many years now.

4 Likes
4

Sounds like Ally or USBank Lease returns

5

Well I suppose the question would be, do they have any recourse? I am absolutely not planning on paying them. Since there is no “undoing” of lease deals, without much difficulty…

6

I signed, that says “I understand that if the payoff amount listed is less than what is actually owed to the lender, I am responsible for this amount to be paid to (DEALER) immediately.”

Yup they have a recourse.

8 Likes
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Where did they get the number they used in the contract? If it wasn’t from Audi did they use a residual you provided? I really hope this works out for you. If you knew in advance you could have just sold the car back to an Audi dealer.

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You are missing that AFS says the faxed the dealer the correct higher buyout on the day of the transaction. If that is correct then he has lots of recourse against this dealer. The bigger problem for OP is that if the car is not paid off AFS will come after him and tank his credit unless the dealer actually paid the 4800 difference so they can get title to the car and sell it.

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They contacted Audi FS themselves, and supposedly got a quote faxed to them, from which they got the number they used. I was surprised at the time, that the number was ANY higher than what I saw on the website. I suppose it’s possible they just looked it up, and went with that number, or they waited longer than 10 days to pay.

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According to Audi FS, this is not on me in any way. On the site it does not show the payoff, but that 900 something is due, but doesn’t really look “due.” If I try to see the payoff amount on the site now, it gives me an error. The notice Audi FS sent states that the dealer owes the difference.

I asked Audi a hundred ways from Sunday, and they seemed 100% sure this is not my responsibility.

1 Like
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  1. it sounds like your Audi trade is paid off? do you know if the dealer still has it?

  2. can you login to your lfs account for the new lexus account yet?

Agree this sounds like Lexus got the wrong payoff and is trying to stick you with the short.

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Yeah the trade appears “paid off,” and I have been able to log into the Lexus account since day 1, as I had several Lexus prior. I have been able to see it, make payment etc, for the last 2.5 months.

I don’t know if they still have it. If they were smart, they would have sold it quickly, as used cars were getting a premium. I’d have done it myself, but it needed some repairs, and I didn’t want to deal with it.

I knew it would be less smooth than just rolling into another Audi, but they insisted everything was “fine.”

13

It sounds like your new lease is funded (can’t be unwound) and your old trade probably can’t be returned.

I’d offer to either give them back the Lexus and they can return the Audi, or pay it by COB this Friday.

2 Likes
14

Well wouldn’t that be a bit of a pickle, even if they had the Audi still? The original quote was only good for 10 days. And this notice is dated 6/7, of which they have 10 days to pay without further penalty. If I were to “give them back the Lexus,” then they’d have to give me quite a bit of money back, I’d think.

15

You’re in CA so you can resell the audi without sales tax in 10 days…

so maybe demand the audi back, purchase it from audi and resell it to the dealership for the agreed price (orCarvana etc. for more) - probably at a net profit

That might be the best for everyone

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BUT what would stop Audi from them giving me a similarly ridiculous payoff quote? Are they bound to only charge me what the original amount was, in any way?

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Yes they are

18

If the Lexus lease is already funded and the Audi has been paid off, it sounds like the dealers problem.

1 Like
19

Your lease contract stipulates how your payoff is determined.

20

What’s not quite clear is how the dealer received the original (lower) payoff quote on the day of sale.

If the deal and payoff figure was based solely on the OP pulling up their personal payoff online from Audi FS, then that’s on the OP for not getting the correct 3rd party payoff quote.

But if the dealer and/or OP requested the 3rd party payoff from Audi FS, and now Audi is saying that payoff is incorrect, that’s on Audi FS for providing the wrong payoff.

Obviously there was a big miscommunication regarding what the correct 3rd party payoff was between the OP, dealer, and Audi FS, and unfortunately this sounds like it will be a mess to unwind.