*Edited to improve clarity of question, specifically the first bullet point.
Hi everyone, I’ve been on the forum for a few years and recently in the market for a few months looking for a deal on a 2025 Mercedes EQE 350 or Porsche Macan EV and reading a lot of broker/dealer postings.
Can someone clarify for me whether it is standard practice for LH listings by broker or dealers to include the 1st year registration fee in the “Driveoff” amount?
I’’ve gotten mixed response when inquiring with different brokers or dealers, so thought I’d clarify.
If it is not typically included in the driveoff for broker or dealer listings, is this something that can be successfully negotiated on to be included in the drive-off amount, or unlikely?
I’ve tried to do a search on the forums for a clear answer before posting this, but haven’t been successful – so apologies if this has been bookmarked before.
I typically don’t see postings clearly specifiy this, below is an example type of listing language I’ll see with no mention.
Example Dealer or Broker Listing:
202X MODEL NAME ($XXk)
$599+ tax
36 mo / 7500 mi / $3500 driveoff
Exterior Color x Interior Color
Location
$599 broker fee (when broker listing)
[List of Packages/Options]
I’m based in NV so the Gov’t Services Tax in addition to the base registration fee can typically bump the registration fee up by an additional $1K. On a shorter lease or high DAS that can materially affect the lease economics (in my opinion).
A broker or dealer isn’t going to negotiate on a government fee they have no control over. If the gov’t charges $1000 then the gov’t doesn’t negotiate and it’s $1000.
Assuming you are referring to a deal that you negotiate yourself, your primary negotiating levers are going to be getting the best discount off MSRP that you can, ideally at base mf and utilizing one pay or MSD’s where it is favorable to do so and maximizing any potential incentives.
Broker listings on here aren’t known for being negotiable vs saying a realtor or some other type of broker. Broker listings will on occasion get a little better at the end of the month IF the dealer they partner with needs to move a few more units. IMO that would be more likely to happen with Mercedes before Porsche.
To summarize my understanding, it sounds to me that the drive off amount typically included on broker or even dealer car listings does not generally include the registration fee that will be incurred by the lessee (buyer).
With that said, is it fair to assume that the following is typically what’s included in the “driveoff” amount (i.e., DAS, or due at signing)?
1st Month Payment (inclusive of sales tax)(~$650 for Clark County, NV per my initial example)
Acquisition Fee from Manufacturers’ Financial Services (MBFS or PFS in this case)(~$895 for MBFS)
Dealer Doc Fee(~$500)
Dealer’s DMV nominal vehicle registration fee (to notify vehicle has been sold)?(~$50)
Other?
Total:~$2,095 (based on previous example)
Based on the above illustration, it seems that the drive off amount should be $2,095 so what I don’t understand is if the listing is saying $3,500 drive off, then what is the additional $1,405 for? Dealer and/or broker profit?
DAS can be any amount you want it to be. It can include or exclude anything you want it to. Typically you either include fees in DAS or they get rolled into cap. Any overage would go to cap reduction.
Generally if one is leasing a car from where the broker is advertising, that isn’t correct. Someone from CA leasing from a SoCal dealer would drive-off with the first year registration paid as part of their deal. You would have to speak to the specific broker about how out of state registration is handled for NV. It would be rare for a dealer to let anyone self-register, if they aren’t setup to do tag and title for your state, they may use a third party service.
There is no set rule about what the DAS amount “should” be.
As gohawks noted above it can be anything you want it to be. It can be nothing, just first month’s payment, first payment and some fees, first payment and all fees, first payment and all fees and some more $$ on top of that, etc. etc.
It’s up to the buyer to build the deal how you want it. If you want the deal above but only want to do $1k DAS instead of $3500 then tell the broker to structure it that way (obviously your payment will go up).
And in many cases brokers structure their advertised deals to show payments that look enticing. In the deal above, if you just did $2k DAS instead of $3500 then the advertised payment would be say $675, which isn’t nearly as attractive as $599.
You can either pay $3500 out of pocket and roll your tax/title into the payment OR keep the payment $599/mo and add the tax/title on top of the $3500.
I always assume brokers add their fee in addition to whatever is due at signing, since the DAS amount should go right to the dealer. Some might advertise the DAS amount with their fees included.
As others said, the DAS can include a down payment (cap cost reduction). For every $1,000 due at signing, it is approximately $25/mo on a 36-month lease and $40/mo on a 24-month lease. So if you want to only give them $2000, then the payment increases accordingly.
I believe this is where I’ve observed there to be a lack of norm or differing practices amongst brokers/dealers. Some brokers (in Cal or even those sourcing a deal from the east coast) have told me that the DAS does not include tax/title fees for out of state buyers.
As some hackers have noted, it seems the best practice is to clarify this upfront with a broker for clarity. Which is prudent in any case and agreeable.
I wish it was a forum practice to require disclosure in postings so there could be transparency. Otherwise, as wam22 noted, there is an incentive for the broker/dealer to not apply it towards the customary fees I deliniated earlier or cap cost reduction as prior mentioned, but to their profit.
I recognize that DAS can be anything you want it to be and it’s up to the buyer to structure the deal.
However, I’d estimate a majority of the “competitive” deals posted on LHer by brokers/dealers always seem to imply “non-negotiable” or similar language to suggest the dealership will not modify the terms.
In those situations and listings, then it makes sense to have transparency over such a crucial term: i.e., what does the driveoff amount cover – specifically will it cover tax/title – if so, only for local buyers or out-of-state as well (but up to a cap of what a local buyer’s tax/title fee would be?) – seems that would be most equitable to do… why penalize an out-of-state buyer by not covering at least up to the tax/title fee a local buyer would pay?
This is incorrect. “Non-negotiable” means that the pre-incentive discount is set. It does not mean that the deal structure or terms can’t be modified. If the broker is advertising 10% pre-incentive discount, don’t ask if they can do 12%.
However if they advertise 10% pre-incentive at $599/mo for 36/10 with $3500 DAS, it’s no problem to ask to change to 36/12 with only $500 DAS instead. The pre-incentive discount hasn’t changed and the dealer is making the exact same amount on the deal.
You’re over complicating this. If the broker’s advertised deal says it doesn’t include out of state tax/title/reg, that just means they included those fees in their ad for their local market but (understandably) don’t know exactly what that figure would be for all 50 states.
That does not mean they are penalizing out of state customers making them pay tax/title/reg twice. If the broker is in CA and has included $1k of local CA tax/title/reg in their deal, but your state only has $500 of tax/title/reg, your deal would presumably end up $500 less than the advertised deal.
Thanks all — super helpful. Thought I’d synthesize the take-aways from the replies (tags where credit due) so it can serve as a reference for future Hackrs.
1) What does “drive-off” (i.e., due at signing or “DAS”) actually include?
There is no universal rule. DAS can include just 1st payment, or 1st pmt + all fees (manuf. acquisition, dealer doc, tax/title), or even extra cap-reduction; it’s simply how the deal is structured. [@gohawks23], [@j_e_f_f].
Many SoCal brokers or dealers do bundle 1st pmt + fees in the DAS of their deals; some even round the total with a small cap-reduction to hit an attractive number (e.g., $599/mo + tax). [@CoastalMotorGroup].
2) Is first-year registration included if I’m out-of-state?
For local/in-state customers where the dealer is registering the car, first-year reg (tax/title) is typically part of the drive-off. [@jeisensc].
For out-of-state customers clarify up front; first-year reg will likely be in the drive-off, but the actual amount may be more or less than what is advertised in the deal because the deal is using the local state tax/title fees for the DAS estimate. It would be rare for a dealer to not include/handle this and let you self-register in your state. [@jeisensc], [@j_e_f_f].
3) Can I “negotiate” government fees into DAS?
Government fees aren’t negotiable, but the deal structure is: you can trade DAS for monthly payment (and vice-versa) while keeping the same pre-incentive discount and buy-rate MF. [@ApexHunt], [@j_e_f_f].
Your primary negotiating levers are (1) get the best discount off MSRP, (2) ideally a base Money Factor (MF), (3) utilizing one pay or Multiple Security Deposits (MSDs) when favorable to do so, and finally (4) maximizing potential incentives. [@ApexHunterApexHunter]
4) “Non-negotiable” Lease Listings — what’s fixed vs flexible?
“Non-negotiable” language in a lease listing generally means the pre-incentive discount is fixed (i.e., % off MSRP before incentives are applied), not that thestructurecan’t be changed. You can usually adjust miles, term, and DAS (e.g., lower DAS leads to a higher monthly payment or vice versa) without changing the discount. [@j_e_f_f].
5) Practical next steps I’ll follow (thanks to the guidance):
Confirm what’s included in the DAS line-by-line (1st pmt, doc, acq fee, tax/title fees for reg, any cap-reduction) with specific clarification on out-of-state registration and inclusion of 1st year tax/title fees.
Verify whether the broker’s fee is separate from DAS or included in the ad’s mo payment. [@wam22]. I assume it would be rare if it’s included in the DAS or listing figures, but I suppose it doesn’t hurt to confirm.
Appreciate everyone’s insights — marking this solved on my end. Let me know if I’m miscrediting or attributing anything and I’ll edit accordingly.
