Seems like most of the posts are people being confused about what the op was talking about.
OP: I understand what you’re suggesting. I am new here, but seems to me like there’s value in a wiki thread covering the rules for each manufacturer. Will probably lead to an endless series of “but how do I FIND these???” posts. But maybe over time someone can add those details too, and create a more detailed 101 guide. I don’t think it needs to have every bit of information right at the start.
Problem with that is there are plenty of never-titled cars that are well used
And many of them have spilled coffee inside… and someone may have put in 87 octane even though the gas cap says the car needs 91. $6/gal 87 octane gasoline sucks.
I’m not asking for the list to show the numbers; just what can or cannot be leased from captive banks per manufacturer (what to look for in the CarFax for example) and based on if it was ever farted in.
I started a baseline google sheet that is open, feel free to suggest edits and we can maybe have a way to verify based on how many hearts they have.
@Jac_Le OP I think the issue is that you are throwing a lot of terms at once – it gets confusing. Avoid broadly applying terms like “used” and “new” as there are legal definitions behind them.
It seems like you are talking about:
Did I miss anything? Each category has its nuances so we need to talk about them separately. @michael might be able to bring some clarity later.
What is your objective in compiling this list? To simply see whether there is a captive program for the vehicle?
I’m not aware of any captive lender that offers subvented new car programs on previously-titled vehicles that were registered to a party other than a dealership or manufacturer.
Take BMWFS for example. A vehicle might be sold, titled, and registered to a dealer as a loaner. The dealer could then sell the loaner they own to a customer using BMWFS new car lease rates.
Or a vehicle could be sold, title, and registered to BMW corporate. This brasshat car would later be sold to your local BMW dealer, who can then sell it to a customer using BMWFS new car lease rates.
However, if it’s a privately-owned BMW that the dealer takes in as a trade or buys from auction, the dealer would not be able to sell it using BMWFS new car lease rates. BMWFS used to offer used car lease rates for vehicles that fall under this criteria, but it rarely made sense and it seems they stopped offering it.
So I mean while you all use farts as demos; farts don’t care what car they take place in but I get it can be confusing with all these terms.
I would add to your bullet:
Used (Non-CPO) previous titled actual customers.
Again as in my case with VWFS (Audi).
Or the dealer could sell it as a “used” unit correct? So it’s up to the dealer to decide what to list the car as (new) or (used).
Like BMWFS just knows the VIN and the details of the deal; they don’t know the dealer listed the car as “new” or “used” right?
AFAIK, VW Credit/AFS generally does not lease previously-titled vehicles that were registered to actual customers. They only do so if it was a loaner or corporate vehicle. And when they do so, you can only use their standard rates, not subvented, and most incentives do not apply.
CPO is a designation that can be applied independent of everything. You can CPO a loaner car, you can CPO a previously-titled privately-owned car – it really shouldn’t be a factor as to whether something is leasable or not.
Then my Audi E-Tron GT RS that I leased is an anomaly because it was a single owner unit/non-corp car. That’s why I’m a little confused. And we know Porsche DOES allow this as CPO; so that’s why it’s a bit confusing.
Totally understand if it’s not worth exploring; I was trying to understand a bit more around loopholes and figured I’d ask.
Ah, I recall reading a shared deal about that a while back. It definitely wouldn’t be under AFS New Car Special Lease Rates – it would be a different program.
Porsche FS does allow you to lease used, previously-titled vehicles that were registered to actual customers. It’s also an entirely different program from their new car rates and residuals. They are dedicated used car rates with a 2% RV boost for PACPO.
Right so that’s why I was saying having a central source that just states these things a bit more explicitly.
Exactly, but AFS still can make it happen. That’s why in the google sheet, I was trying to capture that it’s different.
They actually do have a very wacky seldom used program for this. It’s been a while since I’ve seen it, no subvented rates.
So other than VW/Audi, are there any other cases? It just sounds like an extremely limited/edge case.
I wonder about the value of this exercise as, it’s not like these are deals easily reproduced and available to all, no?
Do you know if it’s still active? I saw one post about it from last yr, I think (can’t recall if it the OP who posted about it or not), but I did a search on the site and couldn’t find any other info or examples.
Is it wacky b/c the models under the program are pretty random?
Other than Scott, no other Audi broker or dealer rep has chimed in on this particular program or offering. Probably too low volume and minis in every case.
I honestly have no idea, I just remember my guy mentioning to me a one off deal or two on an EV that he found last year. He said it’s mostly a useless program.
Looks like I’m ahead of the curve here trying to account for manufacturers that support these offers. I’ll update the list to include Honda/Acura.
Ford also seems to be exploring this: https://www.ford.com/finance/research/used-lease
As @michael stated, these programs won’t be based on new vehicle programs. I bet those leases come out to be more expensive than their brand new equivalent.