Borrowing/leasing can make sense at times but working furiously to get a specific monthly payment shoehorned into a budget is worrisome to me. Oh well it will help me in waiting for the coming recession/crash in car, RE, etc with people that will be adversely affected so I can swoop in for a true deal. 
Downtown is a sonic dealership, they have been aggressive in the past with aged units and/or loaners, but I doubt thatās the case now. Schomp is a one price dealer and Iāve never gotten a decent quote from them, one price stores are not for hackers. The car buying landscape is not normal right now, who knows what normal is and when it will return
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Those numbers seem pretty stupid, why not just order a 911, pay sticker, drive it until youāve got the nice car bug out of your system, then sell it in a couple years with minimal loss. Not sure how easy it is to order one right now, but I wouldnāt bother with any kind of bmw lease/ ballon right now, especially on an M car
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hereās the calculator most credit unions will use for this service, Iām with Deere Credit Union and basically refiāed penfeds (they dont offer this anymore) loan at 62k, hence $645/mo.
https://secure.autofinancialgroup.com/AFG/index.jsp?CUID=271186423&m
Iād get a 72 mo āpayment saverā loan and not deal with high payment, I pay extra to offset any negative equity but in my last 10 years of buying cars this way, Iāve never been under ā¦ Golf Rs, Audi RS3, M3 etc ā¦ this works well for cars that retain their value, I wouldnāt do this on cars that are 50% in 2 years ā¦
at 2.7% its free money and if youāre like me where you buy a new car every 1-2 years ā¦ why would I sink more than $10k into a car that just sits there?
thatās the rate on my M3.
I would take that $42k and invest it at 7-10% or buy an investment property instead of a depreciating asset. Max cash flow is the wya to go ā¦ debt is inevitable ā¦ ones that brag about no debt are missing out IMO ā¦
What state are you in? we can find you a credit union that has the payment saver loan and make this transaction simple.
Good luck!
PS: Ignorance is why people donāt use this service ā¦ and theyāre afraid ā¦ avg car ownership is now 6 years ā¦ so they want a paid off maintenance nighmare ā¦ I only drive mine whilst with a warranty and let someone else fix them up.
Iāll be ordering up a '23 M3 Xdrive next year as my last hurrah car ā¦ and keep the RS3 ā¦ the payment between them 2 will probably equate to 1 M3 āfinanceā payment of $1300 mo.
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So are you saying that the āpayment saverā is a balloon loan and that you use it to finance your car, but just sell your car and pay it off before the baloon is ever due? That actually makes a lot of sense.basically you put enough money down on the car to prevent from going upside down with negative equity, then get a balloon loan with a minimal payment until youāre ready to sell it. Is that an accurate summary?
I live in Colorado, but I imagine lenders in other states would finance a loan here. I work with a Wisconsin Altra credit union in Wisconsin all the time. I found this one too: AFG Calculator
If you know something I donāt about where to make 7-10% returns in the next few years Iād love to hear it. 
. We are actually looking at a place in Spain right now as an investment and second home/AirBnB situation. If you invest over a certain threshold, the Spanish government gives you a āgolden visaā for residency that is pretty nice to have.
The Porsche isnāt for me just yet. I still need a semi practical car. I have kids in the house. I work out my mid life crisis on a motorcycle.
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I spoke to Schomp today and they were very nice, and run a tight ship. However, they advertise no dealer fees and āone priceā no haggle, but currently they are marking up their cars $5,000 and $7,500 over MSRP so who cares about no dealer fees. They also may start doing the mandatory stuff like security systems or clear bra.
Downtown Denver was super nice and easy to deal with. Iām on the waiting list there.
Wow that price. Uhhh i got bent, sold mine for 73k last July. That dealer sold it for 79.9, and now itās probably worth 90.
Respectfully, itās not worth 20k over, f that noise
I should just call out that getting an M3 āright nowā actually means that it will be here in a year, with whatever incentives and loan rates are going in then. BMW allows locking in on rates and incentives up to 120 days in advance. So the rates now arenāt what Iāll pay. It could get worse or better.
Anyway, if I was making a practical decision Iād be over at the Toyota dealer. Iām not entirely rational when it comes to car purchasing.
Did you have the heritage edition M3?
I will say that the one they are selling for $105,000 isnāt just the M3 Heritage edition - the owner went nuts with adding custom upholstery, custom steering wheel, and a bunch of other stuff worth about $27,000. It was louder than the average M3 too. It was fun to drive but it should be a crime to build that car with an automatic transmission.
I backed out of my M5 competition order last friday because of the same shenanigans. $1,960 on 36/10k with $3,300 DAS. This was a sticker deal with $2,000 off due to incentives. I can assume someoneās lease right now for $1,500 for the same car. Why the hell would I pay over $2k a month for an M5!?!
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100% certain the rates will be higher.
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Even though many dealerships are not charging over MSRP, I spoke to about seven dealerships in three states and they all had one thing in common. The current BMW base money factor for a lease is 0.0019 but every single dealership without exception was marking it up the most BMW allows, which is an extra 0.0004, for a total MF of 0.0023.
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M3 inventory is almost zero right now. Dealerships havenāt received a significant number of allocations over the last few months and many 2022 orders that were originally scheduled for production have rolled over to 2023. Nearly every BMW dealership is marking up the MF and theyāve been doing this for the past several months. IMO, if you have your heart set on the M3, get on a few waiting lists that guarantee MSRP and wait it out. At least youāll get the car exactly how you want it. Thereās probably some retooling that needs to happen as the 2023 M3 will have the new 3-series LCI dash, so I wouldnāt expect the backlog to get any better for a few months.
Option #2 is to get an M4. @IAC had an available allocation yesterday but itās gone now. M4 lists are far shorter. Not sure if this is less demand for the M4, or just that the M4 factory had fewer delays.
Longer term none of us have a crystal ball, but if I had to bet, iād bet on the following:
-Rates will continue to rise, todayās 0.75 rate increase is just the beginning. Supposedly, rates need to come to within 2% of inflation to have any real effect. Weāre still a long way off, and thatās if you believe the official inflation numbers
-The economy is getting worse, as far as your M3, I think the long lists will get shorter and more and more people will scale back on high end purchases and as interest rates continue to go up
-The supply chain should get better or at least manufacturers will figure out how to bypass the current roadblocks. They probably donāt want a factory thatās producing fewer very profitable automobiles vs. max capacity.
Waiting means you get the car as MSRP but potentially deal with higher rates, an even higher MSRP (already $2700-3700 higher for 2023) or both. I also think the wait wonāt be as long as what dealers are quoting as weāll see the lists get shorter as the economy worsens.
The Toyota dealership is even more irrational right now. You should see the markups on RAV4 and Sienna Hybrids, itās like theyāre selling Porsches or something. I understand paying a markup for luxury goods, what I donāt understand is people lining up to pay markups on Toyotas that generally sell well below invoice all day long.
Yeah itāll be 10x harder to find a 911 at sticker, maybe a base allocation but nothing else.
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I would have considered a balloon option but the rates theyāre quoting are absurd. So instead Iām planning to do 3rd party financing for my M3 through a credit union. You can get a 72 month loan which severely undercuts any rates that BMWFS is currently offering.
I would take that $15k, put it down on a 72 month 3rd party loan through a credit union, and your payment will essentially be lower than a lease payment assuming no money down.
Thereās also gonna be a decent amount of people paying 1500/mo+ on m3 leases who are going to be dying to get rid of them.
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So under this balloon you would pay an effective $1,700/mo for 36 months, then still owe $43k at the end of it.
That might even be more insane than the really insane lease quotes first mentioned.
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Lot of people who do crazy mental math to make these balloon things look better than they are. No free lunch. Can work in certain circumstances/cars but no one is handing you free money. Not sure why they are all the rage.
Reality of these things is youāre paying gigantic interest , delta between this and a rate you could get is what 4% ? So if you finance whole car that is 3k a year in diff of interest alone.
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Agree with that completely. I think people try to convince themselves itās a better deal by getting a monthly payment theyāre comfortable with as opposed to looking at total overall cost.
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