Hacking Procedures Question

[HondaSoCal]

Are you married to the woman who offered me 4.5k under invoice as an out-the-door on a CRV?

[Chogers]

@mllcb42

@Chogers

So why not use the 1% rule? Especially if its below 1% then you automatically know you are not getting hosed whatsoever

Because the 1% rule doesn’t tell you if something is a good lease or not. It’s a horrible metric for evaluating something. There are lots of cars where 1% is a horrible deal and lots where 1% is not achievable.

I like the 1% rule when it comes to leasing. Compare it to a purchase price and its golden! For example; 50000 car is $1000 per month based on $100 per $5000 car OR lease same car for $500 per month for 36 months. Very generic I know so don’t yell at me. Haha!

[Chogers]

@mllcb42

@Chogers

If we cannot use the 1% rule than what comparison can we use to help with the KISS rule?

You’re moving the target here from the original question.

It appears that what you’re not actually trying to ask “why can’t I just tell the dealer the monthly payment I want” and are actually asking “why can’t I know what a good lease payment is without actually figuring it out”.

You are right. I need to keep the initial question of “why can’t I just tell the dealer what I want to pay per month?”
Fair enough. I believe this is the simplest way to negotiate rather than point out all factors on the calculator. And I believe other LHs are right to say it needs to be a computed payment per month and not one just pulled from the sky.

[mllcb42]

@Chogers

I like the 1% rule when it comes to leasing

You shouldn’t, but you do you.

[volvo1]

@HondaSoCal

4.5k under invoice as an out-the-door on a CRV?

I wonder where people get those kinds of numbers.

[volvo1]

1% rule is useless (and I know @mllcb42 is going to get mad at me for saying this) unless you are comparing two deals from two of the same models (330i to 330i). That way, you can determine which deal is “better” as the MP for a higher MSRP are is also going to be higher. But the LeaseHackr score is also a much better way of looking at this, putting the value into an approximation in terms of years and not percentage points.

Comparing a Chevy truck to a BMW is not something that is possible. Different makes, models, incentive programs, RV, dealer holdbacks, etc. Go ahead and compare a 330i to an M340i all day, as those cars share some resemblance in terms of the lease calculations.

[mllcb42]

@volvo1

1% rule is useless (and I know @mllcb42 is going to get mad at me for saying this) unless you are comparing two deals from two of the same models (330i to 330i).

Can you explain how the 1% rule applies in that scenario?

I can understand the argument of comparing %MSRP per month between two vehicles, but that’s different than just saying “if <1%, good deal!”

[volvo1]

Not in terms of good deal, but solely as a comparative value. It is solely as another data point in making a decision, not as a metric for how good is my deal.

A hypothetical example: Let’s say I have a base S60 T6 MOM and a loaded S60 T6R, both of which you have negotiated the best deal for. Where RVs and price-point is different, but the incentives are the same, being able to say “yeah the T6 MOM is going to be more due to a lower MP/COST ratio.” Think of it has the mole of leasing . Though I am not saying that someone who posts saying <1% = Good deal is correct. Far from it.

[mllcb42]

@volvo1

“yeah the T6 MOM is going to be more due to a lower MP/COST ratio.”

But that isn’t applying the 1% rule at all… that’s a totally different comparison. Yah, you’re utilizing %MSRP, but applying the 1% rule would be looking at that situation and saying “well, the MOM and R are both under 1%, so they’re both equally awesome! yay!” with no comparison to determine which one was actually better.

[volvo1]

It’s a useless statistic, I agree. It is a statistic nonetheless.

[mllcb42]

I personally prefer to compare my leases on the basis of number of valve stems per boat payments for the dealer. Hey, it’s a statistic!

[volvo1]

You are telling you don’t use the “Days of negotiations to F&I Protection Package sales pushes” statistic? Far better than the one you are referencing.

[mllcb42]

That’s my back up for when I’m shopping in an area without a good body of water nearby for the boat.

[HondaSoCal]

“I know about the mark-ups”

[volvo1]

Was that in one of your many quote emails or in person?

[HondaSoCal]

This was a most-valiant keyboard warrior.

[nyccarguy]

Well said. It is always nice to have a dealer’s perspective on the LH threads. If the numbers from your dealership come out cheaper with a lower selling price and a slightly marked up MF, that wouldn’t bother me. If it comes out cheaper the other way around, then I’ll see if you can match, if you can’t then I’ll move on.

Maybe the doc fee is higher at one dealer vs. another. Back in 2014 I was shopping for a 2015 Subaru Legacy. The dealer near my house in CT had a $399 Conveyance Fee. The dealer 15 minutes away in NY had a higher selling price, but a doc fee of only $75. I added everything up and the NY dealer was $100 cheaper after everything. I gave the CT dealer a chance and he said no. So I bought in NY.

In 2012 I was shopping leftover BMW 328xi leases. Every dealer I contacted had the same deal on the table, Invoice less incentives, base MF. At the time I thought it was a great deal, turns out it wasn’t (but was a fun car to dirve for 30 months/50K miles). I had a trade in at the time. Dealer A offered me 13,500 for it (and made it sound like he was doing me a favor), dealer B took a look and offered me $16,500.

[HersheySweet]

Hahaha, 1% on a 8 series is a steal, 1% on a Velar or Full size is a steal, 1% on a Volvo is a standard first dealer offer.

[anamnesis111]

There is no simple way to deal with dealers. They will always try to pull something quick on you. However you approach it, at the end of the day you ll have to go over every detail if you want a hackr worthy deal.

[volvo1]

If you ask for the breakdown of the deal and work the calculation out yourself, then you can easily tell if the numbers work.