Ironically, just this past week a Acura salesman used the same pitch as the very first post about having me ask the other dealer if they have an extra one because he will be right behind me in getting one. He presents me a counter offer on the NEW one that I was interested in (keyword NEW), then proceeds to try to show me the value of a CPO with 3k miles on the odo that is $3k more than his offer on the new one. I told him I was perplexed and wanted him to explain how paying $3k more for a used car is considered value. I didn’t want to assume it was a simple loaner. Maybe they were able to resurrect Soichiro Honda from the dead to build that specific one and drive it for those 3k miles. He then ended the conversation by saying that he wanted to build a relationship and not be a salesman.
I was so tempted to burst the guy’s bubble by telling him that this dealership group in North San Diego County is known by the competition as the one where customers go to test drive but buy elsewhere.
By the way, he used those tactics because they were off by $700 on the price of a $40k vehicle. If they didn’t use these tactics, I would have easily paid them more than other dealers since it literally is 5 minutes away from my home (I highly suspect those tricks are in the dealer group’s sales manual, as the prior week the same story was told by a different brand at the same dealer group). But this experience took away any guilt I may have had for going to that dealership group in the future to test drive their cars. Maybe I can some fun with their Audi or Porsche dealers.
I call him immediately and ask him to confirm the details via email and copy his sales manager, since I’ve played the “miscommunication” term change game before. VIN, term, due at signing, monthly payment, 6% taxes included, plate fee included, selling price or cap cost - just basic details so I know that it’s legit and approved by your manager and I don’t waste my time driving to Indiana. I promised again that I wouldn’t shop the offer and just wanted to make this as painless as possible. I tell him once he sends it I’ll submit credit app on the site, give him a card # for a deposit, and drive over tomorrow. He assures me this deal is great, that he can’t even get this himself, bla bla bla. I ask him again to kindly send it or I’m moving on to the next dealer. He said OK and promised that he’ll send it within the hour.
He calls me back in an hour. Very sheepishly he says “Hey Chris, just wanted to confirm, uh, you wanted a Civic LX right?”
When I worked at a Mazda dealership in 2016, I was the only person there that could calculate a lease by hand (going back to the 6 to 8 people in the country could do it line from earlier - guess I’m one of them!) It came in handy when the computers were out for 2 days.
Another benefit was I would calculate any lease by hand before bringing it to the desk for real numbers. The way I would work leases was completely different than other sales people (I held a lot more gross doing this). Instead of asking them what payment they wanted to be at, I would ask them what discount they thought was fair for everyone. I would then take that discount, write up the numbers in front of them explaining it as I went so I made sure they were comfortable with everything as it’s not as clear on the contracts. I would make the same “mistake” that guy made and subtract RV from MSRP or mess with the numbers some other way to make them a bit higher. I would then ask them if I can get them whatever numbers we came up with, if they would sign right now.
So you would start the whole thing by being “open and honest about the numbers” and then proceed to “mess with the numbers”. Proud of yourself at the end of the day? This is just a basic variation of a sleazy car salesman that no one wants to deal with.
And yet if someone was to post a hypothetical of how they adjusted some screenshots, fudged some numbers, and faked their way to a better deal, this entire forum would be screaming and yelling how all customers are assholes. There is already that if a customer dares to shop across the dealers.
I think what Falcon is talking about doing is no different than what most salesman end up doing. Except, he actually runs the numbers and explains the process to the customer which is more than I can say for 98% of the salesmen I’ve ever encountered.
So long as the customer arrives at a number they’re happy with and they see it, who cares?
I would have seen it that way, had he not pointed out how he makes a “mistake” note the quotes, which implies he’s doing it on purpose. And then continued admission “or mess with the numbers some other way to make them a bit higher.”
Correct. To be completely honest, I worked for a Mazda dealership - there was no money to be made there. There’s like $800 between invoice and MSRP on most models. I was paid 20% of front end gross, or $100 flats. If I sold a car for full sticker, I would make something like $160. In order to make any sort of money there or at most dealerships - you have to hold gross. Volume doesn’t really get you very far where I worked. I’m not saying I’m proud of what I did - I’m explaining it for everyone’s benefit here. I did a lot of fucked up things when I sold cars. It’s one of the reasons I no longer sell cars. To make any money doing so, you can’t give away cars all day at LH worthy deals or even get close. Was I sleazy? Sure, a bit. But with me, the numbers wouldn’t change - what you saw is what you got. You were either ok with the payment and DAS or you weren’t and I wasn’t going to try to convince you otherwise.
Most of these leases still ended up being well sticker and many under invoice, so it’s not like I was fucking everyone left and right - just simplifying the process between a customer coming in and asking for $5k off a $24k Mazda 3 or wanting a CX9 for $300/mo (this is when Mazda used Chase and they leased terribly) into actually being realistic with their numbers and getting a car. I would say most of them ended up with an average or slightly above average deal for a Mazda.
And most customers are assholes BTW. Including myself. I do think car sales is a profession that provides no value, even more so than real estate agents. That being said, I do recognize that I, along with most LH users are in the minority in which we’re interested in learning how things works and using it to get a good deal - when most people could care less and just need the payment to fit their budget.
Thanks. The difference with me was I didn’t go back and forth and hide between a big mean manager. I knew what was generally doable and what wasn’t, and was able to save everyone time.
I did tell a lot of my customers about the 1% rule. Something to remember was that these weren’t customers coming in and asking for a reasonable discount - people would walk in with crazy numbers and would get defensive if a manager would talk to them. I would defuse the situation and explain the actual math.
True.
Yeah, I did do it on purpose. It’s the only way to come out to realistic numbers most of the time. Something to keep in mind is the general population is not like LeaseHackr. They won’t come in with knowledge of an aggressive, but potentially doable deal. They would come in expecting to lease a car for $49/mo or get $10,000 off due to some rebates no one would ever qualify for becuase that’s what Major World Auto Group advertises on one VIN number with $8k DAS that no one ever reads the fine print of.
Aaaaaaaaaand we’re done here.
? Exhausting child