I’m comparing a Model 3 Dual motor to an Audi S4, not an A4, as that was a car I cross-shopping it with. It replaced a BMW 1M Coupe as a daily driver (the Tesla became the daily and I added a Porsche GT4 to cover the “fun” part).
I get the Tesla hate but I find much of it misguided. A Corolla doesn’t have 4wd for Tahoe trips, it has less space, it doesn’t have a sub 5 second 0-60 or passing speed that will humble any BMW short of the modern M cars. Yes the interior is austere and I take issue with some of the handling, but in no way should it be compared to a Corolla.
Covered, see my post. Less than 20% of our total energy use is in the highest rate period, something that was not hard to do. That electricity is 50% more expensive than non TOU plans during this time (so the bill would go up 10%) but we’re able to move enough high draw use to lower rate periods (washing, pool pump, dishwasher, A/C etc) that the net overall impact is low single digits percent to the bill. Overall we’re thousands cheaper on TOU even before counting the gas savings.
Did it have 4wd and a sub 5 second 60? I’ll give you that Teslas are not luxury cars but one can’t ignore the space or performance. And I suspect your 5 series isn’t a much bigger as you might think. As I said, happy to run the comparison with anything from 2018 that’s 4wd and has similar space and performance… 3.7-3.8 miles per kWh, not that it makes any difference.
As I said going in- you need to make massively poor assumptions or compare apples and oranges to get anywhere close to an ICE car breaking even. And from my perspective you’re doing both.
If I cross-shop a BMW iX with a Hyundai Kona, they aren’t equivalent. Not by any means. Heck I can cross shop a Ferrari with a bike, doesn’t mean they are in the same category. A tesla is fancy corolla. seats are uncomfortable, wind noise is bad, the car creeks etc
You know what, instead of arguing why I think you are wrong, lets say you are right. Your case is specific. In general, for apples to apples comparison, EVs aren’t that much cheaper than gas. It is cheaper, but not a ton.
Compare the op cost for Rav4 with the BZx for example. Or Nisson Arya with Rogue. And see what you come up with, because thats an apples to apples comparison.
Here is a super simple template: Drive 1000 miles per month:
Gas:
25mpg => 1000/ 25 = 40 gallons a month.
$5 a gallon => 40*5 = $200 a month on gas
EV:
3mi/kwh => 1000/3 = 333.3 kwh
$0.25 c /kwh = $84 on electric costs a month.
So yeah, its a $115 a month saving, IFF and IFF you can get electric at 25cents. At 50cents… oh man.
I am ignoring the maintenance costs (which strongly favor EV) and headaches to find chargers and availability (which strongly favors gas)
Not really savings an EV is more expensive to insure per month + registration is more due to the higher msrp you get fucked one way or another there’s no winning here
Unless you are @TheSmoke09 and drive a beater
Other cons: higher entry @ MSRP, insurance (usually more), the cost of charger/install and lost opportunity cost/waste of time while sitting at a charger as well when on the road.
Other pros: saving the planet (by using electricity that is a majority of fossil fuel-based generation, and also ignoring the battery materials initial collection and eventual disposal)
Not dealbreakers, but part of the equation.
edit: higher reg fee like @anon65069371 said as well.
While I agree, its hard to put that into calculations because insurance varies so much person to person. For example, when I switched from a 55k MSRP BMW 5-series to a 65k Ford Mach-E EV, my insurance dropped 20%. But I can see how it can be the other way around as well.
While I like that we finally had some lively discussion, I think the point has been proven that EVs can be cheaper than their ICE counterparts at least for monthly leasing, fuel and maintenance costs. .
It obviously varies by location, that type of EV/ICE but at least for me and few others here… EVs come up on the plus side of the equation especially if you throw in free EV charging and Cali’s discounts/rebates.
But this does illustrate that PHEV and Hybrids are on the short end of this because not only do they not get the cheaper ICE pricing, but other than some exceptions for lease/IRA credits, they also don’t get any free charging.
And if gas in Cali going to $7… seems like even with higher electricity rates, the more efficient EVs and a combination of solar can work to your favor (setting aside the renewable/climate arguments).
I can’t believe how many homeowners in California were actually opposed to rooftop solar in 2020-2022.
Pairing BEV with rooftop solar basically locks in electricity pricing. Assuming only a 15 year useful life of a normal solar array that cost $3.50 per watt to install (which is way the heck too short and more expensive than most people would pay)… a system that generates about 150 MWh over those 15 years will cost someone around $25,000.
$25,000 / 150,000 = $0.17 per kWh.
Lock that stuff in and charge charge charge. Then the US government just hands out mega-discounted BEV leases. It’s a huge win all around.
In general I agree with you. But let’s wait another few years to see what tricks the PUCs have up their sleeves towards getting homeowners on NEM2(maybe even NEM1) to start paying more, before we come to a final conclusion on whether those homeowners were right or wrong to be against rooftop solar in 2020-2022.
Another real world apples to apples: my wife’s former GV70 3.5T @ 23mpg, $5.50+ per gallon premium California fuel, $3,600 per year @15k miles/ year vs her new Ioniq 5 AWD, a car with similar pace, space and more fun-factor. $1,200 per year at $.27 per kWh (or now $450 per year with NEM 2 solar). So again: 1/3 the cost (or less).
That’s the nationwide average- cheaper in nearly all cases, often not by a huge amount. But real world especially if you care about pace, driving dynamics and space and you’re willing to “hack” a little by moving your energy use around there are many cases that are radically cheaper than gas. I just gave you two in a high electricity cost state at 1/3 the cost of gas: I’d call that a “ton”.
And if that’s not a “ton” I’ll be at $.11 per kWh with solar this year: literally 85%- 90% cheaper to “fuel” than a gasoline car of equivalent space and performance for the cars I’d want to buy (or even your 4wd Corolla). So as I said: I very much disagree with many of the conclusions being reached in this thread.
Every one that mentions the savings of solar, what about the cost of purchasing and installing? Also, in Ca Income based electricity rates will most likely make middle to upper pay more in rates. So unless something changes for the better, I think EVs could end up costing more than gas for income based plans.
To be fair… I don’t see much math behind the detractors.
Even the one that @boozinix posted still favored EVs.
Some times with these EV vs ICE comparisons is EV drivers have experience with both EV and ICE, while ICE drivers (who are anti EV) only have driven/owned/leased ICE so they can’t make an accurate comparison.
