I’m having trouble comparing a Dealer Sheet to my own Lease Proposal along with what I’m seeing in the Leasehackr Calculator..
Copilot tells me the difference is that the rebate tax of $406.25 is being remapped into depreciation. Can a human being kindly help decipher what is going on here and maybe assist me with the proper follow-up question in order to get to the bottom of the mismatch? Should I be asking for the actual worksheet?
Yup. What you posted does not provide much information. This is a Ford Mord Motor lease. They use an interest rate (3.52%), not a money factor. It’s important that your proposal reflects that. So, you need to delete the money factor. There was sufficient information provided for me to compute the base payment. I get 662.83. Adding MA sales tax @6.25% yields a monthly lease payment of 704.26. They’re payment calc of 767.48 is way off! Also, I have no idea how they got an adj. cap of 49328. Below is what I get using their data…
Sell price… 54484.00
Fees… 1405.29 … (itemize!)
Gross Cap… 55889.29
Deal Contributions… 6500.00 … (What is this? Rebates?) Bad terminology
Adj. Cap… 49389.29
RV… 29679.30
Term… 36
FMC Interest Rate… 3.52%
You can calculate the before tax monthly payment using Excel’s PMT function. I’ve posted how to do this in several posts. Here is the syntax…
Base Payment = PMT(rate/12, Term, -Adj. Cap, Residual, 1)
Don’t waste time trying to decipher a dealer’s worksheet. Otherwise, you’re allowing them to control the deal. They often omit relevant detail such as the money factor; don’t itemize fees and occasionally make mistakes. Rely on credible outside sources (e.g., LH marketplace and LH signed deals and tips, Edmunds, etc.).
Yes, dealer worksheet input data can be useful. However, all dealer-provided data must be vetted such as acquisition fee, doc fee (regulated by some states), cost of money (e.g., money factor, gov fees, residual, rebates, sales tax rate, etc.). Make sure the residual matches the term and annual mileage requirement. Check available tax credits/incentives via the dealer who may issue tax credits or assess a lower sales tax rate to energize sales for some models (e.g., Texas).
Research selling prices in your market coupled with reasonable expectations. Sometimes, dealers embed rebates in their discount. Keep them separate. Get a list of customer rebates, incentives, and credits (e.g., electric chargers) including VIN-specific discounts, if any. The dealer has such a list. GM calls their list the Customer Incentive Acknowledgement form which includes manufacturer rebate and incentive disclosures. Restrictions may apply to the extent that some rebates may not be disclosed such as college grad, military, educators, AMEX, Costco, etc.
Secure a copy of the factory window sticker. Check for non-factory add-ons or dealer-installed options. If possible, eliminate those you don’t want or need.
Organize all researched and vetted data with the goal of creating a one-page professional-looking lease proposal (which you’ve done quite well) that reflects your target deal. The idea is to create your own deal, not replicate or reverse engineer the dealer’s deal.
??? Let me know.
Not a human, but Opus 4.7 says:
| Line Item | Your Proposal | Dealer Quote | Delta |
|---|---|---|---|
| Total MSRP | $60,570.00 | $60,570.00 | ✓ Match |
| Selling Price (Agreed Value) | $54,484.00 | $54,484.00 | ✓ Match |
| Discount vs MSRP | $6,086 (10.05%) | $6,086 | ✓ Match |
| Rebates / Deal Contributions | $6,500 | $6,500 | ✓ Match |
| Residual | 49% / $29,679.30 | 49% / $29,679.30 | ✓ Match |
| Money Factor (stated) | 0.00147 (3.52%) | 3.52 (=0.00147) | ✓ Match on paper |
| Term / Miles | 36 mo / 10,500 | 36 mo / 10,500 | ✓ Match |
| Acquisition Fee | $645 | Bundled in fees | — |
| Doc Fee | $649 | Bundled in fees | — |
| MA Excise Tax | $61.29 | Bundled in fees | — |
| Total Fees | $1,355.29 | $1,405.29 | +$50 dealer |
| Adj. Cap Cost | $49,684.25 | $49,328.00 | −$356 dealer (lower) |
| Customer Cash (DAS) | $689 (1st pmt); gov fees at MA RMV | $0.00 | Different structure |
| Monthly Payment | $689.00 | $767.48 | +$78.48/mo dealer |
| 36-mo cost delta | — | — | +$2,825.28 |
Take the dealer’s own stated numbers — adj cap $49,328, residual $29,679.30, MF 0.00147, 36 months, MA 6.25% tax — and the payment should be:
They quoted $767.48. That’s $64/mo unexplained, or ~$2,300 over the term.
Back-solving what MF actually produces $767.48 at their stated cap cost:
That’s a ~0.000764 markup over buy rate (roughly 1.8 points of APR), hidden behind a matching stated MF. Classic “the rate on the sheet isn’t the rate in the payment” move — the display says 3.52% but the payment is priced at ~5.36%.
Fees are $50 higher and undisclosed. Your proposal itemized $645 + $649 + $61.29 = $1,355.29. Their $1,405.29 bundle isn’t broken out — ask what the extra $50 is (could be an inspection fee, tire tax, or MA title fee they haven’t disclosed).
DAS structure differs. You proposed $689 DAS = first payment only, with government fees paid separately by you at MA RMV. They show $0.00 customer cash. Confirm whether gov fees are (a) capped into their cap cost, (b) still expected at MA RMV, or (c) waived — this affects true cost.
Is th8s AI talking to you? Or are you talking to me? You’re using an MF when you should be using an interest rate. Not a big difference but I’m always spot on in my lease proposals.
You are correct. Actually, the APR is 5.38% but your 5.36% estimate is exactly what one would expect using an MF.
I didn’t reply to you, and started my comment with a disclaimer it was AI. Thanks.
Thanks for this. I feel as though I did all my proper research and I’ve presented all the appropriate numbers and detail. I have the window sticker and there are no add-ons.
Both of your replies seem to try to get at how they get to a higher number - but I don’t think I received specific feedback as to what I need to ask from the dealer to see “their” numbers.
More specifically, their worksheet says 3.52% APR but your takeaway is that they’ve artificially inflated it?
I honestly don’t know what they did. What I do know is that at least one of their numbers is wrong and it may very well be the 3.52%. Here’s my take…
As I stated above don’t waste time trying to decipher a dealer’s worksheet. Otherwise, you’re allowing them to control the deal.
Organize all researched and vetted data, example tabled below, with the goal of creating a one-page professional-looking lease proposal that reflects your target deal. The idea is to create your own deal, not replicate or reverse engineer the dealer’s deal.
Next, table all lease inception fees and how they are to be paid. As a side note, I did not capitalize non-taxable fees such as taxes and gov. fees. In those states that tax the payments, you’re likely required to pay tax on capped non-taxable fees. As such, it’s suggested that non-taxable fees be paid at lease inception instead of capitalized whenever feasible.
Bottom line: Zero drive-off followed by 23 monthly payments of 382.37 each.
Once you’ve performed all calculations having gathered, vetted, and organized all data, craft a lease proposal and email it to the sales manager (SM), not a floor salesperson as they often lack knowledge and are tethered to their SM. Be sure to contact the SM first to let them know you’re emailing them a one-page lease proposal because you want to close the deal today or, at the very latest, tomorrow. Send the proposal as soon as you hang up. It must be comprehensive, authoritative, professional-looking, and flawless otherwise, you’ll lose credibility. You have don
e a very good job of that and seem to have a very good understanding of the math. You’re a breath of fresh air!
Negotiate via phone/email. I prefer the phone. Be nice but firm. Explain to them that it is your practice not to deal with multiple dealers simultaneously and that you refuse to play games like “can you match or beat this”. Above all, say what you mean and mean what you say. Remember that local dealers know each other. Speak in a commanding and business-like voice that exudes confidence and knowledge. Unless they’re very stupid, once they see your fabulous proposal it will speak volumes. They’ll immediately know it’s time to put away their toys and board games and get down to business absent all the BS.
Once an agreement is reached, ask the dealer for a review copy of the lease agreement and all contract addenda BEFORE you go to the dealer and sign. Moreover, it’s helpful to know the terms and conditions of the lease contract such as early termination liability criteria and purchase option criteria as well as excess wear/tear criteria. If all the terms are mutually agreed, tell the SM that you’ll come in to sign in an hour or two. You don’t want any surprises or dealer excuses like …. Oh, we made a mistake. That’s unacceptable and shouldn’t be tolerated.
If the dealer isn’t transparent or is uncooperative or showing signs of incompetence, WALK AWAY AND MOVE ON!
