I’ll say one last thing, for your own good, before I bow out of this thread.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
You’re throwing up all the red flags of someone who will get destroyed in the infamous finance office.
They’ll show you a strong discount and destroy you on everything else.
Ohio, 36/12, under 200?
I see a T, A, C
Tacoma sr double cab lease!
Is it deal shopping? Or car shopping? 
Not even remotely.
There are cars with huge discounts available that lease very poorly because of other factors.
That isn’t to say you want a small discount from MSRP, but the discount is only a small piece of the puzzle for determining what makes an excellent deal.
I understand all of the elements involved. I am talking about between a civic , corolla and hrv. The residuals , mf and rebates are in pretty comparable. However if the hrv is only being discounted by a couple hundred from msrp and Corolla a couple
Thousand then that will far and away be the biggest factor when the other variables are comparable. Residual , mf aren’t that big of a deal when you are talking about cars in the 20k Msrp range. In the 50k Msrp range then that is a different story. All residuals are 60-63 for these vehicles , rebates all between 500-1500 and convertible mf to 1-2%
Yes, if you hold all else equal so that discount is the only variable, then it is indeed the only variable. That’s a far cry from saying that discount is the only thing that matters though without majorly moving the goal posts.
I never said it was the only thing that matters ever. I said it is one of most important factors which is absolutely true. BMW loaners can be discounted by 25% and that’s by far the biggest factor in a lease. Other times on say the Acura TL for example , the residual sucks at maybe 50 percent but Acura throws 8000 lease cash at it. I understand all of the factors but usually the discount is most important. That is my point
You said it was one of the most important factors to see how well a car leases, which is only true after you’ve thrown out all the other variables. There are much bigger hurdles that need to be crossed before you worry about $1000 here or there in a discount to determine if something will lease well. The best discount in the world can be very quickly squished with a poor rv, high mf, or lack of incentives compared to other vehicles.
Hondas, for example, generally aren’t particularly good leases because of lower (although generally more accurate) RVs, high MFs, and limited incentives, even when you’re getting them at 10-15% off pre-incentive. There’s a reason a volvo S60, even with a smaller pre-incentive discount percentage, tends to lease as cheap as a civic in may cases.
This is an incentive, not a discount, and a perfect example of where the quality of the lease is determined largely not by the discount.
I know. That was my point. There are obviously times when incentives supersede discount from Msrp. That’s why I threw out that example. I was just saying the majority of the time the discount from msrp will translate to the biggest savings. Are there exceptions - sure. In generalizations though , from a mathematics standpoint - the discount from msrp will be “usually” be the biggest factor. I’m not sure why you guys are arguing it’s not when it certainly is especially on lower prices cars.
The discount from MSRP is generally only the biggest factor on poor leases.
Poor leases become good leases because of the rest of the lease programs.
You’ll never get enough discount on a car to make a lease with bad programs into a good lease, but there are definitely leases with amazing programs that still aren’t bad with a mediocre discount.
Again that’s completely false. if you review some of the unicorn deals on these boards you can prove yourself wrong. The best deals are not because of incredible RVs or ultra low MFs. They are because of huge discounts from MSRP or huge incentives which at the end of the day are the same thing because they reduce the net cap cost in the same way. It’s leasing 101.
No, they aren’t the same thing. Yes, they both reduce the cap cost, but one is a discount and one is the leasing program. That’s the whole point. One you have some control of and is what you’re negotiating, the other is what it is. That is leasing 101.
I understand they are separate but at the end of the day it’s those two things that are far and away the biggest factors in finding a great lease. The residual value is based upon the msrp and if you have a huge discount (dealer discount or incentive ) , they work the same at the end of the day and reduce the net cap cost. Again there are exceptions but usually the discount whether that comes from dealer or Incentive is much more important than MF and residuals. If you don’t see that then maybe you haven’t been getting the best deals over the years. PS you negotiate both an incentive and lease cash because the dealer doesn’t have to give you all the lease cash. That’s leasing 101
You keep lumping incentives in with discounts. They’re not. They’re part of the lease programs, like the MF and residuals. Big incentives make a HUGE difference.
One need only look at the recent A6 lease offerings to see how a huge discount doesn’t do you a damn thing when the RVs are low. Same goes from stuff like the kia stinger. They’re both cars where huge discounts are useless because the programs kill it.
This is simply not true. The lease cash goes to the dealer and it is ALWAYS involved in the deal. When they “don’t give it to”, they’re just giving you a crappy discount. It’s not like the lease cash goes away.
It don’t think we are ever going to agree. Incentives and discounts are two independent things but they work exactly the same way and reduce the net cap cost. That’s the whole point and simply stating those are more important than RV and MF. All pieces of the pie need to be considered for a great deal but incentives and discounts are absolutely the most important.
It’s all part of the negotiating. Negotiating a good price before incentives and then ensuring you get all the incentive monies are both controllable variables by the end consumer. To say the lease cash is always involved in the deal is not accurate as many dealers try and hold back. Yeah it’s always involved in their margin from the parent company but we as customers don’t give a crap about that, we need to ensure all of that savings is passed on.
But they don’t. One is something you negotiate and have some control over and the other is part of the lease programs. That is a huge critical difference when it comes to negotiating a deal.
Here’s the simple test: you will never narrow down a list of good lease candidates by looking at vehicles with good discounts. You will, however, narrow down a list of good lease candidates by looking at vehicles with good lease programs.
You still have to negotiate the lease cash After you negotiate a good discount from msrp. That’s part of the art of the deal. Many dealers will not give you a great discount and then all of the lease cash on top of it
I really don’t understand your point. Look at the best deals on these boards , they usually come from places like BMW where people are getting giant discounts from msrp. Whether it be a loaner or year end model - this is much bigger than the program which doesn’t produce that kind of savings. A couple grand in incentives or a residual bump is not going to compete with a huge discount