Bad lease offer from Texas dealers? Kia EV6 and Nissan Ariya

Ask the Hackrs
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1

I was looking at two cars, EV6 GT-LINE AWD or Wind AWD,
And a Nissan Ariya Evolve+ E4orce

I was given pricing for the EV6 as follows,
GT-LINE
Cash down 650, Monthly 739, they claim the 36 mo lease is bettter,

I saw the rebates on the 24 at 15.2k, 36mo at 14.2k MF at .00094,

They said the 36mo was 677/mo

MRSP 59615,

so called discount 3000

Rebate 15,200

adj price 41,415

Addedum CARE PACKAGE 3775 (so they discounted the car, just to add 3775, none of which I need NONE, they actually marked the car over by 775. They mentioned about the features it comes with, windshield protection and replacement, and in the 27 years I’ve been driving, I’ve had ZERO cracked windshields, also includes… OIL CHANGES and TRANS FLUSHES… I just looked at him… really… oil changes… what oil changes?

Doc fee 150, TAX 3019

Non tax fees 788

Balance 49,147,

on a WIND edition,

cash down, 650, monthly 642,

MSRP 54595

Discount 3000

REBATE 14,200

Adjust price 37395

dealerships CARE PACkAGE again 3775

Total purchase 41170

doc fee 150

tax 2744

non tax fee 788

balance 44852.

But they kept arguing that they’re giving me the care package for 775 since they’re discounting it 3000. Yeah, but you raised the price of the car, they car itself has 0 discount. They’re selling it at sticker. then …non tax fees?

2

For the Nissan Ariya I got offers as follows,
First offer Sales price, 47,249, Rebate 18.5k, adjusted price =28,749

Value protection blah blah addendum BS $4000!!!

Total purchase 32,744, doc fee 225, taxes 2046, LTT 1,314, balance 36,330

Monthly 3k down, 337, 4k down 290

ZERO down would have been $481mo, 290 with 4k down.

I went back today, and they said the prices were wrong,

I asked them to take off the ADD, but what they did was raise the MSRP up from their website price of 47000, up to 50k, rebate 11k adjusted 39000, basically the car is at STICKER price, , doc 225, tax, 2437, LTT 1327, BALance 43000, and my monthly would be:

$795/mo with $0 down,

I need 9000 down to make it under $300/mo…

Another dealership offered first month down @625/mo for the same 24mo/10k miles.

I thought for certain I would find something around the $300 range. The Ariya they have has been sitting there for 145+ days. The Kia EV6 has been there 325 DAYS.

3

Good place to start is to stop asking dealers how much they want you to pay. Theres no reason to ever ask a dealer for a quote. Put together a target deal and make them an offer.

4

I gave them all a ball park figure, which was that I wanted to preferably be under $300/mo but everyone’s offer was $700+ I even gave them I would have taken $400/mo and their counter offer was $700

5

This isnt a target deal and it isn’t an unambiguous offer. Going and giving them vague prices like that doesn’t do you any good.

An offer would be “I’m offering $340/mo with $1000 due at signing on stock number 12345, based on these incentives that I qualify for, sales tax for zip code xxxxx on a 24/10 contingent on tier 1 credit. If you are able to do this deal, I can be there in 2 hours to take delivery”.

Specific, unambiguous, and immediately actionable.

1 Like
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Ah I understand, I left some points out that I didn’t post. When I spoke to them in person I said, I was looking at this Kia EV6, for some transparency
I told them the stock number
I told them the last 4 of the Vin,
I told them I noticed its been on the lot for 320+ days.
I told them the lease I was looking for was 24mo/10k miles,
I was looking to put nothing down.
I told them my credit score is 829-834 month by month.
I told them I noticed there is 15200 in kia cash rebates on 24mo leases,
I told them the MF was .00094, and the residual was 56%
I told them I want to have the car for $350 /mo and I was ready to take it home today if they wanted to do business. That’s why I’m here.

That actually is what I told them. In further conversation, I mentioned I wanted to find one for under $300, but before we got that far, I had already told them I TAKE IT NOW for $350. But they were at 700+

That lead to them back pedaling and their negotiations, and their… $3000+ in taxes. I asked what on this worksheet is “taxable”. I mean the CAR is right? Is it this ADD packages? What else, and they wouldn’t tell me, there was also this “Non Taxable surcharge for $775”. And they couldn’t tell me what it was. Their doc fee was cheap at $150, but this “non tax surcharge” which the other dealer didn’t have just made me think they were hiding fluff in the transaction.

I gave the Nissan a hard close, Make it $300, no down, my credit is 800+ I’ll take it, but they were NO where close,
I went to another Nissan, told them the same, and they were no were close, but at least closer, they were first months payment due up front, and it would be $625/mo.

The Nissan MSRP’s for 50,415, the EV6 for 59,615. But the lease prices for the Nissan are higher. But the MF on the Nissan is .00219 vs .00094 for the Kia.

I was more upfront at KIA, and the first NISSAN,
At the 2nd Nissan dealer, I initially told them I wanted to be $300. But since they were no where close, they asked me if I had any wiggle room, and I said You wiggle, I wiggle, No more than $400. $0 DAS, But they offered $625. with first months due.

7

Respectfully and constructively, that isn’t the same thing as what was recommended.

The vague, round numbers you are presenting will come across as guesses, or hopes, which triggers the sales tactics you’re enduring. You’re at a distinct disadvantage if you’re sized up as uninformed (which most car shoppers are), and at a further disadvantage by showing up in person to try to put a deal together.

Like you, when I joined here this was a really opaque subject, and it took me a fair amount of reading and dissecting and learning from posted Marketplace deals before it finally clicked.

But this is a skill you’ll use over and over again, so to me it was very much worth the investment in time.

1 Like
8

What % discount is required to get you there?

9

If you want a LH-type deal, assume you’re going to have a sub-10% chance at any given dealer.

Which means making offers to at least 10 dealers possibly more.

Make offers, as was suggested (based on sound calculations), and don’t waste your time in further conversations for anything other than a yes.

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10

This is definitely something that gets glossed over in the “make an offer” conversation. Most dealers will say no. That’s fine and to be expected.

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I hoping to learn more and apply it more effectively.

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12

I will find out what % discount is needed. On their worksheet, they were pricing the car at MSRP, and the only discount they gave was from the rebates, such as Kia’s 15200. They “gave” a $3000 from the car, but they added a mandatory value protection package that was $3775, and told me with that discount, its like your maintenance package is only $775. And that includes all my oil changes.
I again paused to allow them to correct themselves, and they never did. Until I said. “its electric, what oil?” I know they’re just used to saying a script. I just felt like saying throw in the blinker fluid and we have a deal. kind of vibe.

But I will use your template for future leases

13

So how did you come up with that number then?

You cant just pull random monthly payments out of the air and expect the offer to make any sense or be taken seriously.

The whole idea here is that you do the research unto what an agressibe, but possible, deal is for your situation and then make offers based on that.

You can’t be surprised a dealer didn’t accept a deal that you don’t know what it even is. The most important step in effectively negotiating a deal is determining what you’re trying to negotiate to. Without doing that before ever speaking to a dealer, everything else is just a shot in the dark.

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14

I based it on comparable leases made for same parameters of leases I saw people posting on leasehackr or reddit ($0 DAS 24/mo 10k/year,) that had signed worksheets, excluding states that had extra incentives like CO/VT/ETC, who when signing their deals had same rebates, and MF within .0001 give or take .0001.
It looked around the lowest signed deals on Kia/Ariya’s were from XXX lets say $200 to $440. and I chose a number in between that I felt comfortable that fell within that margin.
But I see you guys are saying to be even more specific.

The deal at Nissan was different from a week ago when it was $0 DAS at 480/mo than a week later at $0DAS at 7XX

15

I also appreciate all the feedback

16

Yes. The best form to see how your benchmark translates into your target deal is a link to an LH calculator.

Take the pre-incentive % discount from your benchmark deal and make sure everything else is personalized to your location (taxation, rebates, etc).

17

Between $200 and $400/mo on a 24 month lease is an almost $5000 spread in discount required.

Not to mention that in TX, you have a significantly different tax situation that, unless there are sales tax credits available, would itself make a difference of $100-200/mo.

Point is, that looking at the monthly payments of others, especially from different states, gives you nothing for establishing an accurate target price.

The only useful thing to extract from other deals is the pre-incentive discount, adjusted for any mark ups. That data point and that data point alone is the only thing of value to use. You have to then apply that to your personal situation to determine what the target price would be for you.

18

If I paid the sales tax up front would it more accurately reflect the numbers I am seeing from other places? I want to know what variables are making me see one more compared to the other.

Also thank you for taking your time in answering my questions.

19

Depends… what is their sales tax situation? How do their registration/gov fees compare?

It’s really a pointless undertaking to try to back out their tax situations when you simply can just plug in the pre-incentive discount into your calculations for your situation, which you need to do anyway.

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