Show me where I said that.
I think some people are generally missing the point when it comes to Acura and to a point, Lexus. Aside from oddball halo products (that don’t really sell) like the NSX and the LFA these marques exist to offer their existing Honda and Toyota customers a step up in terms of fit, finish and tech. They have a huge established customer base that appreciates their entry level cars for their perceived reliability and generally high resale value. While their upmarket alternatives might not be “the best” in their segments, they are good. Good enough to retain a lot of those same entry level customers when they get that promotion, retire or what have you. They aren’t going to really go overboard offering more than that because for the vast majority of their customers they don’t have to. Mercedes, BMW and Volvo don’t really have that type of established entry level customer base to fall back on, despite their efforts to create that with “cheap” vehicles with their badges on them. It doesn’t really work that way because it can taint your brand when you cut corners to fit a budget segment. In that sense it doesn’t really matter to Honda if the TLX gets beaten in a drag race by a 3 series. The average guy trading in his 10 year old Accord probably isn’t going to care either. He’s getting something familiar, but “better”!
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True & true
***But there is a tension for premium car brands. Some automakers split their mainstream and premium lineups into different brands. Toyota sells its higher-end cars under the Lexus badge, and Ford and General Motors have the Lincoln and Cadillac names, respectively. Even Volkswagen Group can separate its Volkswagen cars, meant more for the average buyers, from its pricier Audi and Porsche brands.
But Mercedes-Benz and BMW have no separate mainstream brands. They have to work with just the one brand. The risk here, say some auto industry insiders, is that in trying to reach every corner of the market they could dilute their high-end brand identity. ***
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In virtually every consumer product segment, when a manufacturer tries to go down market it usually ends up killing the cachet of the brand. It’s really hard to sell something as luxurious and exclusive and then retain that same type of customer base when they see you have decided to target buyers with products that those “exclusive” customers view as “less than”. For whatever reason, going up market seems to work. People love to pay hand over fist for marginal improvements just to be able to say they have the better version.
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I think a lot of the hate for Acura comes from the disappointment of the last gen models from ILX to TLX.
I think it’s about how the brand started off with so much to offer & it disappointed all the fan boys who were looking for them to take that step forward & they became irrelevant for a decade.
Perceived show of wealth & status associated with “brand”.
Dont want to spend the $ if they gonna find the same badge on the wrong sides of the tracks.
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Not really. Acura sales have gone from 210K in 2005 to 136K in 2002, Infiniti from 138K to 80K. Over the same time period, MB went from from 244K to 325K. Lexus has consistently sold in the upper 200K/lower 300K.
Data is from goodcarbadcar.net, and they don’t have data prior to 2005.
Obviously, VW’s attempts to go upmarket have completely failed, and Mazda decided to abandon Amati entirely.
I guess Acura and Infiniti enough to con’t to justify their’ existence, but neither of them sell more cars in the US than, say, Buick (and I don’t think anyone would think of Buick as being a strong seller in the US). And I assume part of the reason Acura and Infiniti still exist in the US is b/c many of the cars were also sold in Japan (or, in the case of many Infinitis, were lightly modified versions of Nissans).
Probably a little confusing, but I did my best to split topics. The above came from an Acura “deal” post. Please continue.
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I think @ElectricEliminator was trying to say that earlier
No one here will argue that Acura & Infiniti as brands haven’t degraded over the past decade.
They both have been degrading for different reasons,
Infiniti fell into the saving costs & other issues that plagued Nissan.
While Acura tried to change who they were, from a premium (not luxury) sport-y vehicle to just a premium comfort vehicle which didn’t help them grow.
Now they’re trying to get back to those.
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When you view Acura as a supplement to Honda’s existing business, it’s doing fine. I imagine Acura sales would probably be more profitable than the average Honda sale as well, so it makes sense to keep them around.
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Also, you can’t compare the decline from 2005 to 2020 as an indication of brand no longer being premium as they went the premium route way before 2005. All it shows is that they made bad choices.
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How easy everyone forgets the Daimler Chrysler experiment
Acura didn’t move fast enough to broaden their SUV base plus rebadging generation minus-1 civics and accords cheapened the brand.
In the US and Canada, Audi, BMW and Mercedes are effectively North American SUV companies that also offer their European car lines.
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It is also notable that Honda makes only 3 or 4 Acura vehicles yet still maintains a dealer network. Lexus transitioned into a full-line Luxury brand and offers the full luxury dealer experience to its customers.
In an age of click and deliver, this seems an oxymoron.
Not to the 50 & up clientel that loves the schmoozing by a sales person in a suit & tie.
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So nobody is going to mention how new tech used to show up in Acura and trickle down to Honda, and now it’s the reverse? I think that Honda is maintaining Acura for the die hard fans who just can’t fathom leaving. It’s the same people buying the MDX over and over again even though MDX became a minivan in 2014. Frankly looking at their commercials and how they operate in the dealerships, they are to the Automotive world what Sprint used to be to cell phones.
Same thing with Infiniti, I was shopping for my first car 2 years ago and when I leased my q50 I thought I got a bargain since it had 300 hp and the lease was only 329$ a month, but then you receive the car and realize why no one buys them, they are marketed towards 3 different groups of people, the interior was built for a retired couple, the engine was built for a kid like me, and the legroom is for a family of 5. Hence why I switched to an m550 as soon as I could
I don’t think it ever trickled down. It trickled across the console. As in you get a Power driver’s seat in the Pilot, if you want a power passenger seat you have to get an MDX.
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Genuine question: what was the new tech?
For SUVs, Acura MDX is new for 2022. The Pilot is still the old model, and it will probably get updated in 2-3 years. The current CRV is still based on the old platform (5th gen?) and not the current RDX which has been out for like 3 years.
Lexus is the opposite on SUVs. The Highlander and Rav4 got updated, but the current RX and NX are based on the old platform. 2022 NX (coming out this fall) will be based on the new platform.
Honda got Apple CarPlay and Android auto before Acura did. Panoramic sunroofs came to Pilot before MDX. I’m sure there were others.
I know it’s new, but it’s also “meh” at the best. There was a whole thread here already on this subject so no need to re-hash. The tech in Acura leaves a lot to be desired. What kind of BS is “Initializing voice control” and then thinks forever just to say it can’t understand anything? The navigation is borderline retarted and hasn’t gotten any smarter in the past 7 years.
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