Would be helpful to know just how much Chinese state subsidies are involved.
Probably 70%+ 
US spent 80 billion on GM and Ford.
and
China spent 3.7 billion on BYD.
You’re forgetting a large part, $70B IIRC of that $80B was paid back.
And come on man, $3.7B? Yeah that’s what China officially “invested” in BYD. That doesn’t include the tens of billions the govt gives companies like BYD in other subsidies. You think BYD pays market price for Chinese mined raw materials that go into making a car? You think they may market price for steel? You think they pay market price for electricity provided by state utilities? You think they pay market price for land for their factories? If you believe all that, I have a really cool oceanfront condo in Kansas for sale. Great deal. Call me.
Still looking for actual data “china won”. Please provide.
3.7 billion my a**. Agree it was way more. But it was spent much more strategically than our EV subsidies.
In only the area of EVs, look at BYD sales data. They are experiencing rapid growth in Europe while Tesla loses market share. BYD already dominates EV sales in Mexico and most other developing markets. Seizing market share is important in car sales since people are more likely to buy the same brand of car again versus a different brand.
And this seems unlikely to change for the American brand (Tesla) that is our primary international EV entry because polling or polling indicates the global perception of America right now isn’t very positive.
Before anyone gets their pantys in a bunch. This is just international polling with no argument about what’s better for America. Tesla sales didn’t decline 27.8% in Europe in 2025 because there is anything wrong with the model Y or model 3. If Europeans have a negative view of Trump, and tie Elon to Trump, they are much less likely to buy a Tesla. I’m sure someone here will tell me Europeans are stupid (maybe) but that doesn’t move metal or change sales figures.
the amount of cope from americans every time china dunks on us makes me lose my mind. we truly are the most propagandized country on the planet.
for what it’s worth, I don’t necessarily believe the 3.7b number either. i do know that it highly benefits china to subsidize their EV market as part of their long term strategy. america could do the same, if we truly wanted to benefit long term, but we only care about quarterly number go up
I don’t believe Chinese workers have unions so their cost of production is way cheaper per car.
I am not as high on China as you are (dictatorships don’t tend to end well) but they got lucky with picking the right EV subsidy plan and sticking with them long-term. Now they are set to dominate EV sales in much of the world.
And I do not think it is propaganda. I think the world economic situation has just gotten more complicated and our power has decreased. Most of us were were alive at a time when Italy had a bigger economy than China. The absence of second economic super power made things simple. People want to turn back the clock but we can’t, China is an economic super power.
Comrade, when the workers control the means of production there is no need for unions /s/.
But of course, there labor costs are much lower. That is a huge advantage.
Also OEMs here spend $15K+ on healthcare costs for each full time UAW worker. In China, BYD probably pays around $500-$1,000 a year for healthcare costs per employee. Of course healthcare is much better here than in China but a Mexican shopping for an EV in Mexico City doesn’t care about the healthcare costs/quality of the people who built the car.
This is truly possibly one of the most naive things you could say referring to the U.S. in a discussion about China. A country with a state controlled economy and you think we are the propagandized country ?
Authoritarian regimes can get stuff done, it’s no surprise to anyone though. China has definitely accomplished a ton, but at what cost? We value personal freedoms and liberty at an exponentially higher level than is allowed in China , which has its own costs. If our government could direct what every person in the country did, ya I think our system would probably be more efficient though not sure people would be down with that.
yes, the US is heavily propagandized. if another country says something, it’s propaganda. if we say it, it’s PR, or the way it’s supposed to be.
china also isn’t a dictatorship. they’re heavily isolated, yes, but they do have a very good political structure. where localities meet together and make the demands of their people known, and work with the government to achieve that.
it’s possible i know what i am talking about because I’ve studied global foreign policy and economics, and am aware of how damaging this country i love has been to the globe or anyone under the boot. that’s again, why the us is the most propagandized country on the planet.
calling china an authoritarian dictatorship while we are doing the exact same thing is comical to say the least. the difference is you like what ours is doing. i think there’s a lot of bad things the chinese government has done, just as all governments have done. the difference is they are lifting up their broader society instead of beating them down
if you think we have more personal freedoms while we can clearly see with our lying eyes they are stripped away daily, i have a bridge to sell you
When did I say I like what our government has done?
you made a dumb comment, it’s ok. You’re a China stan, that’s also ok. No we do not have a similar level of authoritarianism as China , no we are not as propagandized as China .
you think Chinese have the same or more personal freedoms than US citizens ? Lmao that’s incredible.
“ very good political structure” truly lmao
Of course our government does its own amounts of propaganda as all governments do. But no it is nowhere near China’s level, who has a state controlled economy and media.
Any time I see the “we’re as authoritarian as China” argument, I’m out because you’re not talking to a rational person.
you’re right. i forgot, so far this year china has has been actively kidnapping people in unmarked cars, killing citizens in the street with their police force, kidnapped heads of state, started wars without congressional approval, actively worked to suppress free speech in the independent media, protects pedophiles to ensure the global and political order is maintained, sends unlimited weapons to maintain a genocide, starves an island nation of oil so hospitals can not keep the lights on. that’s what authoritarians do.
i am the one that’s irrational. i want to US to do better
Nice whataboutism, a lot of those points I agree with you on, namely ICE, Iran war and Epstein denial.
Hey how many candidates were there in Xi’s last election ? funny how a country of over a billion cannot produce another candidate who may do a better job than the current leader of their “ very good political structure.” Guess it’s just so good the leader unanimously wins elections , it must be nice to have such a competent ruler that everyone adores and chooses to support remaining in absolute power for decades
This is exactly what I’m talking about. And why I don’t bother arguing. Live in your fantasy world if you must.
Have you seen our current POTUS? We have a pedo. It’s an indictment of this country.
Why is it so hard for some of you to admit China has better EV right now?
what does better mean? The article is about the cost and even references undisclosed subsidies from the Chinese government.
I haven’t seen a head to head comparison of their cars vs Tesla. It’s entirely possible and prob likely they are better though. Yes it’s certainly possible China has invested more in EVs than the U.S. has.